PEB rating 0% for Graves Disease, but we are pushing for PTSD - advice?

[CluelessNAlmostOutOfTime]

Hi, this is kind of a Hail Mary pass as our FPEB is 6/14 and we have been left adrift for the majority of the process. I found this site yesterday and so am now hoping that someone can point me in a good direction so my husband (US Army Reserve, and the one going through the FPEB) has an idea if it’s even worth continuing the fight.

During his MEB he was on a deployment covering a unit that had gone to Afghanistan, so he was still in the USA. He has Graves Disease and it was adequately managed when he arrived on unit, but getting in to see a doctor who could prescribe his medication was so difficult he ended up without medication for three months. During this time his mental health deteriorated considerably, and the upshot was that he was not fit for duty due to his mental state. It was him seeking a refill of his medication that actually triggered the MEB.

Anyway, I have taken sanitized screen shots of his DA199 so you can see the PEB results, and we are fighting to get his PTSD and depression acknowledged by the army. He left at the beginning of the year as his normal relatively happy and outgoing self, but came back depressed, suicidal, emotionally volatile, with no self esteem, no self worth, and pretty much a hermit who can’t face being around people for very long.
We have my testimony, a letter from the E4 who ended up taking on his responsibilities, a letter from an E6 who worked adjacent to him, and two officers in the unit, as well as testimony from a friend regarding the personality changes, and from my boss who employed him for a short while when he first got back from the deployment. We also have all the usual VA medical record.

Is it worth fighting? Is there any particular route we should push? We believe his Graves Disease is a result of his former Active Duty status when he served in Kosovo in (I think?) 2001, and the water was acknowledged by Europe to be extremely polluted with heavy metals. However, we cannot find any records of him ever being there other than a single unit phone tree with his name on it - it’s dated and has the unit crest etc. but without any actual records, I don’t think we have a case proving the Graves Disease is actually service caused.
so… Help?

 

[Provis]

Hi, this is kind of a Hail Mary pass as our FPEB is 6/14 and we have been left adrift for the majority of the process. I found this site yesterday and so am now hoping that someone can point me in a good direction so my husband (US Army Reserve, and the one going through the FPEB) has an idea if it’s even worth continuing the fight.

During his MEB he was on a deployment covering a unit that had gone to Afghanistan, so he was still in the USA. He has Graves Disease and it was adequately managed when he arrived on unit, but getting in to see a doctor who could prescribe his medication was so difficult he ended up without medication for three months. During this time his mental health deteriorated considerably, and the upshot was that he was not fit for duty due to his mental state. It was him seeking a refill of his medication that actually triggered the MEB.

Anyway, I have taken sanitized screen shots of his DA199 so you can see the PEB results, and we are fighting to get his PTSD and depression acknowledged by the army. He left at the beginning of the year as his normal relatively happy and outgoing self, but came back depressed, suicidal, emotionally volatile, with no self esteem, no self worth, and pretty much a hermit who can’t face being around people for very long.
We have my testimony, a letter from the E4 who ended up taking on his responsibilities, a letter from an E6 who worked adjacent to him, and two officers in the unit, as well as testimony from a friend regarding the personality changes, and from my boss who employed him for a short while when he first got back from the deployment. We also have all the usual VA medical record.

Is it worth fighting? Is there any particular route we should push? We believe his Graves Disease is a result of his former Active Duty status when he served in Kosovo in (I think?) 2001, and the water was acknowledged by Europe to be extremely polluted with heavy metals. However, we cannot find any records of him ever being there other than a single unit phone tree with his name on it - it’s dated and has the unit crest etc. but without any actual records, I don’t think we have a case proving the Graves Disease is actually service caused.
so… Help?

It says that he qualifies for 20 years active federal service retirement. So not sure why you would need to fight it. He can retire now Read section VI carefully. It states: "The Soldiers combined disability rating is less than 30%. However, the Soldier qualifies for permanent disability retirement based on the Soldier having 20 years active federal service."

 

[Provis]

Hi, this is kind of a Hail Mary pass as our FPEB is 6/14 and we have been left adrift for the majority of the process. I found this site yesterday and so am now hoping that someone can point me in a good direction so my husband (US Army Reserve, and the one going through the FPEB) has an idea if it’s even worth continuing the fight.

During his MEB he was on a deployment covering a unit that had gone to Afghanistan, so he was still in the USA. He has Graves Disease and it was adequately managed when he arrived on unit, but getting in to see a doctor who could prescribe his medication was so difficult he ended up without medication for three months. During this time his mental health deteriorated considerably, and the upshot was that he was not fit for duty due to his mental state. It was him seeking a refill of his medication that actually triggered the MEB.

Anyway, I have taken sanitized screen shots of his DA199 so you can see the PEB results, and we are fighting to get his PTSD and depression acknowledged by the army. He left at the beginning of the year as his normal relatively happy and outgoing self, but came back depressed, suicidal, emotionally volatile, with no self esteem, no self worth, and pretty much a hermit who can’t face being around people for very long.
We have my testimony, a letter from the E4 who ended up taking on his responsibilities, a letter from an E6 who worked adjacent to him, and two officers in the unit, as well as testimony from a friend regarding the personality changes, and from my boss who employed him for a short while when he first got back from the deployment. We also have all the usual VA medical record.

Is it worth fighting? Is there any particular route we should push? We believe his Graves Disease is a result of his former Active Duty status when he served in Kosovo in (I think?) 2001, and the water was acknowledged by Europe to be extremely polluted with heavy metals. However, we cannot find any records of him ever being there other than a single unit phone tree with his name on it - it’s dated and has the unit crest etc. but without any actual records, I don’t think we have a case proving the Graves Disease is actually service caused.
so… Help?

Also, I would rescind the FPEB if I were him. He is getting retired immediately. He will qualify for immediate pension and since he has 20 years active federal service he can get CRDP which is concurrent receipt of disability pay as long as his total VA disability rating is 50% or higher.

 

[CluelessNAlmostOutOfTime]

Also, I would rescind the FPEB if I were him. He is getting retired immediately. He will qualify for immediate pension and since he has 20 years active federal service he can get CRDP which is concurrent receipt of disability pay as long as his total VA disability rating is 50% or higher.

Thanks for your advice. It took a lot of digging and research to find information about this (I’m not American, and we don’t live anywhere near a military post - we are so far in the middle of nowhere that the nearest Starbucks is a 45min drive) and now I am trying to work out what his pension might be.
As of 7/1/2021 he had 20yrs 3months and 8days service, and accrued 3955 points between active duty and reserve. Since then he has had more reserve days, and a deployment of 10months, so approximately another 350~ points totalling 4300 ish. Does his pension get based on points earned, or qualifying for regiment? I am taking this info from DA5016?
And thank you for your help so far!

 

[Provis]

Thanks for your advice. It took a lot of digging and research to find information about this (I’m not American, and we don’t live anywhere near a military post - we are so far in the middle of nowhere that the nearest Starbucks is a 45min drive) and now I am trying to work out what his pension might be.
As of 7/1/2021 he had 20yrs 3months and 8days service, and accrued 3955 points between active duty and reserve. Since then he has had more reserve days, and a deployment of 10months, so approximately another 350~ points totalling 4300 ish. Does his pension get based on points earned, or qualifying for regiment? I am taking this info from DA5016?
And thank you for your help so far!

Something isn't adding up. His total points should be well above 7200 if he is a reservist and has 20 years active duty. It sounds like he qualifies for a non regular retirement. If that's the case take the point total and divide by 360. That equals 12 years. 12 x 2.5% per year equals 30%. So if he hasn't reached the age for non regular retirement he will only collect VA disability once kicked out. Then once he reaches age 60 or less if reduced due to qualified deployments he can get his retirement which is 30% of his high 36 (take base pay of active duty highest 36 months and add them together and divide by 36 to get the high 36 amount) + VA disability through CRDP.

Now that I fully understand the situation he should do the FPEB. Use all of that evidence and an IDES attorney to see if he can get PTSD added to get to 30% or higher to qualify immediately for chapter 61 retirement. Then at qualifying non retirement age he can apply for his non regular retirement to get CRDP. If he ends up getting chapter 61 medical retirement any VA disability money will offset his pension. So its possible that qualifying for medical retirement won't add any net income for him. However, he would qualify for Tricare immediately instead of waiting to reach and apply for his non regular retirement.

 

[CluelessNAlmostOutOfTime]

So, I have been digging further into my husband’s documents from his PEB, and his VA medical records, trying to ensure we have a complete packet to send to our JAG council and have discovered a few extra things that I am hoping I can get direction with.

We are intending on continuing on with the FPEB, as there are things in his medical records not noted on the PEB - such as when his deployment started he was unable to get a refill on thyroid medication for 3 months so his Graves Disease went untreated and and subsequently became worse. Also possible sleep apnea (now confirmed) which can potentially be linked to Graves Disease. Not to mention his PTSD which is made worse by the effects of Graves’ disease (fast heart rate, palpitations, anxiety irritability, fatigue, sleep disturbance, problems concentrating) as they can compound each other.

My concern is with his current DA7652 - it was written by an officer who had barely seen him in passing, and had absolutely no interest in him or his Platoon who were deployed to their Battalion for a total of 10 months. Neither they, nor the Battalion Commander had ever met him before, or had any dealings with the platoon other than as seeing them as “red headed step children that must be not seen and not heard” to the point that at the end of the deployment, the Battalion did not even provide any form of ceremony or certificates of appreciation for the men and women who just spent 10 months working with them under less than congenial conditions. If we can get a new DA7652, can we get it written by the Platoon Commander who is still in my husbands chain of command, and then get his usual Battalion Commander to sign off on it?

 

[Provis]

A new DA7652 adding PTSD as a condition that affects his job would help greatly. He should have an assigned legal person for IDES so that IDES attorney should be working with your husband on his case. Now military assigned attorney's are overworked but they should be available. Try not to get into the weeds about other conditions that you are not trying to add as unfitting. The FPEB can only do certain things such as change a condition from Fit to unfit or change it from unstable to stable. If an unfitting condition isn't rated properly your husband can submit a VARR request for the VA to reconsider its rating.
Items like not having access to meds isn't a FPEB thing. Actually talk to your assigned attorney about a VARR. Without meds his condition is worse and should be rated above 0%. See this link: Federal Register :: Request Access

So for example if the VARR was successful they could raise that percentage from 0% to 30% or more. A FPEB can't change a rating percentage. Only a VARR can. It might be worth it to consult a private ides attorney. My advice is to fight for adding PTSD at FPEB & submitting a VARR as well if its not too late. Normally you request the VARR at the same time as when you select to demand a FPEB. The VARR isn't passed on to the VA until after the FPEB hearing though.

This process is very stressful and confusing for most people. My wife hired a private attorney from the start and since the attorney had a game plan and worked with her to craft evidence and appeal when needed her outcome is better than we expected. Going through the process without one and relying on free military counsel is a crapshoot.

 

[rddouglas1213]

I would like to add, because it doesn't look like it's been mentioned, if they are planning to retire him with the assumption that he has 7200 points or more, he should talk to somebody about that ASAP if he only actually has 3955 points.
if the board wrongly thinks he's eligible for a full 20 year active retirement and he's not, and he start collecting on it and he's not eligible, that's going to result in a lot of money owed really quick.

Again, just mentioning because it doesn't look like it was mentioned.
If your husband collects a pension without having 20 active years or 7200 points he will mostly definitely get a bill to pay it back eventually.

Best of luck on the appeal.

 

[CluelessNAlmostOutOfTime]

We had the board this morning. We lost. Not an unexpected event, but disappointing nonetheless.
Its taken almost a full year from the time he managed to see a doc about a prescription and they started down the MEB/PEB route.
In the end, they just didn’t think we had enough hard evidence of his inability to perform his duties as a soldier. While we could prove that his mental health had been badly effected, his previous records were glowing, and there are no current records (his usual command structure is currently on deployment in a delightfully sandy location) and the only records of the period in question were the Commander’s statement (written by a commander who never had a conversation with him, and who didn’t want the deployment there in the first place) and a couple of buddy statements (which we were told are about as useful as an ashtray on a moving motorcycle), so it went as well as you can expect.
The medical records of the time in question were of limited use because he couldn’t see an appropriate mental health specialist, and since he has left, he’s been in the tender care of the VA and still not being seen by anyone for mental health other than for ADHD medication. So we are SOL there too.
So we have been advised to not bother trying to continue this unless we have substantial medical, environmental, and work specific behavioural evidence to back up our case.
We are waiting on the paperwork now, but are probably just going to sign it and just work through the VA system.

One thing to note - he actually had 2 DA199’s and I accidentally shared the wrong one previously! The amended one states that he is eligible for disability separation pay, and as he has received his 20yr letter he should be eligible for disability pension at 60 minus time for deployments. Now we just have to work out which one is best for our circumstances.

 

[CluelessNAlmostOutOfTime]

A new DA7652 adding PTSD as a condition that affects his job would help greatly. He should have an assigned legal person for IDES so that IDES attorney should be working with your husband on his case. Now military assigned attorney's are overworked but they should be available. Try not to get into the weeds about other conditions that you are not trying to add as unfitting. The FPEB can only do certain things such as change a condition from Fit to unfit or change it from unstable to stable. If an unfitting condition isn't rated properly your husband can submit a VARR request for the VA to reconsider its rating.
Items like not having access to meds isn't a FPEB thing. Actually talk to your assigned attorney about a VARR. Without meds his condition is worse and should be rated above 0%. See this link: Federal Register :: Request Access

So for example if the VARR was successful they could raise that percentage from 0% to 30% or more. A FPEB can't change a rating percentage. Only a VARR can. It might be worth it to consult a private ides attorney. My advice is to fight for adding PTSD at FPEB & submitting a VARR as well if its not too late. Normally you request the VARR at the same time as when you select to demand a FPEB. The VARR isn't passed on to the VA until after the FPEB hearing though.

This process is very stressful and confusing for most people. My wife hired a private attorney from the start and since the attorney had a game plan and worked with her to craft evidence and appeal when needed her outcome is better than we expected. Going through the process without one and relying on free military counsel is a crapshoot.

Thanks for the advice. It helped keep me going, and therefore keep the hubby going. I just wish we had a better outcome.

 

[CluelessNAlmostOutOfTime]

I would like to add, because it doesn't look like it's been mentioned, if they are planning to retire him with the assumption that he has 7200 points or more, he should talk to somebody about that ASAP if he only actually has 3955 points.
if the board wrongly thinks he's eligible for a full 20 year active retirement and he's not, and he start collecting on it and he's not eligible, that's going to result in a lot of money owed really quick.

Again, just mentioning because it doesn't look like it was mentioned.
If your husband collects a pension without having 20 active years or 7200 points he will mostly definitely get a bill to pay it back eventually.

Best of luck on the appeal.

Thanks for the heads up - I double checked all my info and realised I was using the original DA199 so had to go back to basics and redo everything that I thought was right…

 

[Provis]

We had the board this morning. We lost. Not an unexpected event, but disappointing nonetheless.
Its taken almost a full year from the time he managed to see a doc about a prescription and they started down the MEB/PEB route.
In the end, they just didn’t think we had enough hard evidence of his inability to perform his duties as a soldier. While we could prove that his mental health had been badly effected, his previous records were glowing, and there are no current records (his usual command structure is currently on deployment in a delightfully sandy location) and the only records of the period in question were the Commander’s statement (written by a commander who never had a conversation with him, and who didn’t want the deployment there in the first place) and a couple of buddy statements (which we were told are about as useful as an ashtray on a moving motorcycle), so it went as well as you can expect.
The medical records of the time in question were of limited use because he couldn’t see an appropriate mental health specialist, and since he has left, he’s been in the tender care of the VA and still not being seen by anyone for mental health other than for ADHD medication. So we are SOL there too.
So we have been advised to not bother trying to continue this unless we have substantial medical, environmental, and work specific behavioural evidence to back up our case.
We are waiting on the paperwork now, but are probably just going to sign it and just work through the VA system.

One thing to note - he actually had 2 DA199’s and I accidentally shared the wrong one previously! The amended one states that he is eligible for disability separation pay, and as he has received his 20yr letter he should be eligible for disability pension at 60 minus time for deployments. Now we just have to work out which one is best for our circumstances.

Always decline separation pay. A pension at age 60 for the rest of your life + Tricare medical is worth WAY more than severance.

 

[Jason Perry]

I am sorry that you found this site so late in the process. I hope that your husband gets all he is entitled to based on his service!

I have looked at this thread a few times and I am not at all sure about what actually happened or has been found. The only DA-199 I saw seemed to indicate that there was an unfit finding based on Grave's Disease, but that condition was non-compensable; however, based on having 20 years or more of total active Federal Service, your husband was eligible for Permanent Disability Retired List (PDRL) retirement. If any of this is wrong, the rest of my comments may not reflect the actual situation.

Anyway, I have taken sanitized screen shots of his DA199 so you can see the PEB results, and we are fighting to get his PTSD and depression acknowledged by the army. He left at the beginning of the year as his normal relatively happy and outgoing self, but came back depressed, suicidal, emotionally volatile, with no self esteem, no self worth, and pretty much a hermit who can’t face being around people for very long.
We have my testimony, a letter from the E4 who ended up taking on his responsibilities, a letter from an E6 who worked adjacent to him, and two officers in the unit, as well as testimony from a friend regarding the personality changes, and from my boss who employed him for a short while when he first got back from the deployment. We also have all the usual VA medical record.

What was the purpose of this? Was it to get a combat related finding? Or to get a higher rating than the PEB assigned based on length of service? Did the VA assign a rating based on these conditions you hoped to have found unfitting? I am trying to understand the desired end state with your husband's case.

Is it worth fighting? Is there any particular route we should push? We believe his Graves Disease is a result of his former Active Duty status when he served in Kosovo in (I think?) 2001, and the water was acknowledged by Europe to be extremely polluted with heavy metals. However, we cannot find any records of him ever being there other than a single unit phone tree with his name on it - it’s dated and has the unit crest etc. but without any actual records, I don’t think we have a case proving the Graves Disease is actually service caused.
so… Help?

I am not sure what the "it" you are thinking about fighting (or as later posts indicate, you already fought out). What is the desired goal? My read says that he has 20 years or more of Active Federal Service and is eligible for CRDP immediately. What more does Graves disease being compensable get him? (However, and all of that aside, I don't see how Grave's or any other condition was not compensable. Aside from the presumptions of service incurrence and service aggravation, which can only be overcome by clear and unmistakable evidence, the Eight Year Rule should apply and make any condition compensable). It seems weird things have happened in your husband's case.

It says that he qualifies for 20 years active federal service retirement. So not sure why you would need to fight it. He can retire now Read section VI carefully. It states: "The Soldiers combined disability rating is less than 30%. However, the Soldier qualifies for permanent disability retirement based on the Soldier having 20 years active federal service."

This ^^^^^

Is this not the case?

Also, I would rescind the FPEB if I were him. He is getting retired immediately. He will qualify for immediate pension and since he has 20 years active federal service he can get CRDP which is concurrent receipt of disability pay as long as his total VA disability rating is 50% or higher.

Not sure how any PDRL outcome could change, so the only reason I could see in rescinding the FPEB would be to get retired and potentially get more via VA plus CRDP. On the other hand, if there are valid claims that might get a higher disability-rated percentage, that could make for more total compensation. My point is that with 20 years TAFMS, little risk to seeking more.

Thanks for your advice. It took a lot of digging and research to find information about this (I’m not American, and we don’t live anywhere near a military post - we are so far in the middle of nowhere that the nearest Starbucks is a 45min drive) and now I am trying to work out what his pension might be.
As of 7/1/2021 he had 20yrs 3months and 8days service, and accrued 3955 points between active duty and reserve. Since then he has had more reserve days, and a deployment of 10months, so approximately another 350~ points totalling 4300 ish. Does his pension get based on points earned, or qualifying for regiment? I am taking this info from DA5016?
And thank you for your help so far!

This seems to be wrong data.

Something isn't adding up. His total points should be well above 7200 if he is a reservist and has 20 years active duty. It sounds like he qualifies for a non regular retirement. If that's the case take the point total and divide by 360. That equals 12 years. 12 x 2.5% per year equals 30%. So if he hasn't reached the age for non regular retirement he will only collect VA disability once kicked out. Then once he reaches age 60 or less if reduced due to qualified deployments he can get his retirement which is 30% of his high 36 (take base pay of active duty highest 36 months and add them together and divide by 36 to get the high 36 amount) + VA disability through CRDP.

This ^^^^ Please clarify.

Now that I fully understand the situation he should do the FPEB. Use all of that evidence and an IDES attorney to see if he can get PTSD added to get to 30% or higher to qualify immediately for chapter 61 retirement. Then at qualifying non retirement age he can apply for his non regular retirement to get CRDP. If he ends up getting chapter 61 medical retirement any VA disability money will offset his pension. So its possible that qualifying for medical retirement won't add any net income for him. However, he would qualify for Tricare immediately instead of waiting to reach and apply for his non regular retirement.

I can't tell what the situation is so I can't say whether or not this makes sense. It might. I don't know how many years of active federal service are in play, and I don't know if the PTSD is combat related or not. Need more accurate info to offer an opinion.

We are intending on continuing on with the FPEB, as there are things in his medical records not noted on the PEB - such as when his deployment started he was unable to get a refill on thyroid medication for 3 months so his Graves Disease went untreated and and subsequently became worse. Also possible sleep apnea (now confirmed) which can potentially be linked to Graves Disease. Not to mention his PTSD which is made worse by the effects of Graves’ disease (fast heart rate, palpitations, anxiety irritability, fatigue, sleep disturbance, problems concentrating) as they can compound each other.

I don't disagree with fighting these issues, but I suspect these issues should have been addressed earlier at the MEB level (I am guessing that they were not).

My concern is with his current DA7652 - it was written by an officer who had barely seen him in passing, and had absolutely no interest in him or his Platoon who were deployed to their Battalion for a total of 10 months. Neither they, nor the Battalion Commander had ever met him before, or had any dealings with the platoon other than as seeing them as “red headed step children that must be not seen and not heard” to the point that at the end of the deployment, the Battalion did not even provide any form of ceremony or certificates of appreciation for the men and women who just spent 10 months working with them under less than congenial conditions. If we can get a new DA7652, can we get it written by the Platoon Commander who is still in my husbands chain of command, and then get his usual Battalion Commander to sign off on it?

Technically, the DA 7652 should be written by the Commander. However, I have often sought an updated 7652 if circumstances or commanders change or if the original did not adequately address a case. In the alternative, though, a memo from any supervisor is helpful.

A new DA7652 adding PTSD as a condition that affects his job would help greatly. He should have an assigned legal person for IDES so that IDES attorney should be working with your husband on his case. Now military assigned attorney's are overworked but they should be available. Try not to get into the weeds about other conditions that you are not trying to add as unfitting. The FPEB can only do certain things such as change a condition from Fit to unfit or change it from unstable to stable. If an unfitting condition isn't rated properly your husband can submit a VARR request for the VA to reconsider its rating.
Items like not having access to meds isn't a FPEB thing. Actually talk to your assigned attorney about a VARR. Without meds his condition is worse and should be rated above 0%. See this link: Federal Register :: Request Access

Good comments, except (unless I am missing something, the VARR is not available based on the DA 199).

So for example if the VARR was successful they could raise that percentage from 0% to 30% or more. A FPEB can't change a rating percentage. Only a VARR can. It might be worth it to consult a private ides attorney. My advice is to fight for adding PTSD at FPEB & submitting a VARR as well if its not too late. Normally you request the VARR at the same time as when you select to demand a FPEB. The VARR isn't passed on to the VA until after the FPEB hearing though.

I am thoroughly confused about this case, but my read is that a VARR is not an option.

We had the board this morning. We lost. Not an unexpected event, but disappointing nonetheless.
Its taken almost a full year from the time he managed to see a doc about a prescription and they started down the MEB/PEB route.
In the end, they just didn’t think we had enough hard evidence of his inability to perform his duties as a soldier. While we could prove that his mental health had been badly effected, his previous records were glowing, and there are no current records (his usual command structure is currently on deployment in a delightfully sandy location) and the only records of the period in question were the Commander’s statement (written by a commander who never had a conversation with him, and who didn’t want the deployment there in the first place) and a couple of buddy statements (which we were told are about as useful as an ashtray on a moving motorcycle), so it went as well as you can expect.
The medical records of the time in question were of limited use because he couldn’t see an appropriate mental health specialist, and since he has left, he’s been in the tender care of the VA and still not being seen by anyone for mental health other than for ADHD medication. So we are SOL there too.
So we have been advised to not bother trying to continue this unless we have substantial medical, environmental, and work specific behavioural evidence to back up our case.
We are waiting on the paperwork now, but are probably just going to sign it and just work through the VA system.

I am not clear about what was contented or lost. If it was PTSD, or any other condition sought to be found be unfitting, then I have a better take.
I don't know that I would give up IF IT MATTERS....there are so many gaps in the full picture that I am not sure what is being sought and why.

One thing to note - he actually had 2 DA199’s and I accidentally shared the wrong one previously! The amended one states that he is eligible for disability separation pay, and as he has received his 20yr letter he should be eligible for disability pension at 60 minus time for deployments. Now we just have to work out which one is best for our circumstances.

I was commenting based on what was posted. If there is a different document with different data, then my opinion might be better informed and might change.

Thanks for the advice. It helped keep me going, and therefore keep the hubby going. I just wish we had a better outcome.

I am glad you got some comfort from the posts here. I am not sure you got a bad outcome or what you were hoping for....however, often, if you have a meritorious case, you can prevail on appeal. I really don't know enough about the case to provide any thoughts about the merits of any appeal.

Always decline separation pay. A pension at age 60 for the rest of your life + Tricare medical is worth WAY more than severance.

Almost always true, but I thought the OP still got a disability retirement finding based on length of service. I am unclear about this case.

 

[Jason Perry]

I am not clear at all about the ultimate decision of the FPEB, what the goal is and why. I suspect that there was/is a potential for a better outcome if I read between the lines, but I remain unclear about the goals and thought process in this case.

 

[Provis]

I am not clear at all about the ultimate decision of the FPEB, what the goal is and why. I suspect that there was/is a potential for a better outcome if I read between the lines, but I remain unclear about the goals and thought process in this case.

These are my assumptions based on the conversation: The DA199 shown was misworded making it sound like her husband achieved 20 Active Duty years of service. They reissued the DA199 after making corrections stating 20 year letter achieved. VARR was on the table but they didn't request it at the time of demanding a formal hearing. So upping Graves % was not available. They tried to get PTSD added through the FPEB but lost. This leaves the Soldier to decline severance and to collect VA disability until they reach the age to apply for their non regular retirement.

Also, these cases are the most frustrating to see because I believe there is a decent chance of having a better outcome when Soldiers hire a dedicated private attorney at the very beginning of the process. Their attorney can help them strategize and shape their argument throughout the entire IDES process. This sets them up for a much better outcome.

 

[CluelessNAlmostOutOfTime]

So, to start from the beginning;
hubby was originally in the army for 7 years as a regular. Had a few knocks and bumps from there and was discharged back in ‘03 from Germany. Finding any records from his time then - especially his deployment to Kosovo has been impossible. We have been trying to prove he was there as we believe his Graves is linked to his time there and the amount of pollution in the water and along the flight lines there.
After he left the regular service, he joined the reserves. He amounted a total of over 4300 points between his regular and reserve time. He had good NCO reports before the last deployment which started in Feb last year. His usual command was not there as it was a handful of reservists from multiple units coming together to cover down a unit being deployed overseas. His usual command was actually deployed somewhere sandy instead So he has not had a current NCO report to show the change in his fitness for duty from before he went on this deployment to now.
While he was in the reserve component, he had access to VA health care and it was there in June of 2019 that they discovered that he has hyperthyroidism as well as depression. He has also been treated for ADHD since then.
When the deployment started he had a months supply of his thyroid and ADHD medication, but despite trying repeatedly to get in to see the required doctors, he was unable to see anyone until he had been without medication for 3 months and had already become a liability to his unit. He was removed from running his team of maintainers, was only allowed to give guidance to the E4 who took over his role. Was repeatedly berated for being useless and unable to do his job. Was spiralling into depression to the point of breaking down and crying on the phone to me most days. Had obviously gone from an outgoing member of the deployment to a withdrawn hermit that did not socialise at all. Talked about suicide to me. Was used as the technical expert - which he is normally more than capable of doing - but was unable to fulfill this role in more than half the times he was required.
Once he was back on medication, the doctor put him forward for a MEB for Graves’ disease. This added more stress to him and as he was getting no support from his chain of command, he felt like he was being hung out to dry.
Things reached a point where there was a DA199 that found him unfitting for Graves at 0% and fitting for other issues which also included shoulder and knee injuries which he has a permanent profile for, and “other depressive disorder“.
His Commanders report was by the commander of the unit he was deployed to - not someone who knew him or even interviewed him about these issues. It was written after he had been taken off his duties, but stated he was perfectly capable of doing his job with no issue.
When we decided to push for a Formal PEB hearing, the JAG attorney we had at the time knew our case and thought we had a really good chance of adding PTSD and potentially getting the Graves’ disease recognised beyond 0%. When we got to the new attorney, he said we had no chance of anything, I should not bother prov testimony because a wife’s testimony is always biase and not really paid attention to. Buddy statements are not really useful but are nice to have - except in this case because the toxic environment that caused his issues beyond lack of medication were a specific person in his chain of command, and the rest of the chain doing nothing- and that’s not a FPEB case. The piece of evidence with the most weight will always be the Commanders statement and it’s shows he was competent, and we can’t go against that. We asked if we could say it was incorrect but he said no because it would imply that the commander was lying. And he never once told us to get a new one and that it’s required to be back in his hands in 5 days.
So we had to go with his best advice which was “other depressive disorder“ being aggravated by lack of medication and situation.

And nothing we did was of use. The medical officer on the board could see he had issues, but in the end, they kept the DA199 as it was amended to - Graves 0%, Disability separation, but he has his 20 year letter, is at the 22 year pay spot for E5, and has 4300~ points so is pensionable by 60 minus his deployment allotments.

I think I covered everything?

 

[Provis]

So, to start from the beginning;
hubby was originally in the army for 7 years as a regular. Had a few knocks and bumps from there and was discharged back in ‘03 from Germany. Finding any records from his time then - especially his deployment to Kosovo has been impossible. We have been trying to prove he was there as we believe his Graves is linked to his time there and the amount of pollution in the water and along the flight lines there.
After he left the regular service, he joined the reserves. He amounted a total of over 4300 points between his regular and reserve time. He had good NCO reports before the last deployment which started in Feb last year. His usual command was not there as it was a handful of reservists from multiple units coming together to cover down a unit being deployed overseas. His usual command was actually deployed somewhere sandy instead So he has not had a current NCO report to show the change in his fitness for duty from before he went on this deployment to now.
While he was in the reserve component, he had access to VA health care and it was there in June of 2019 that they discovered that he has hyperthyroidism as well as depression. He has also been treated for ADHD since then.
When the deployment started he had a months supply of his thyroid and ADHD medication, but despite trying repeatedly to get in to see the required doctors, he was unable to see anyone until he had been without medication for 3 months and had already become a liability to his unit. He was removed from running his team of maintainers, was only allowed to give guidance to the E4 who took over his role. Was repeatedly berated for being useless and unable to do his job. Was spiralling into depression to the point of breaking down and crying on the phone to me most days. Had obviously gone from an outgoing member of the deployment to a withdrawn hermit that did not socialise at all. Talked about suicide to me. Was used as the technical expert - which he is normally more than capable of doing - but was unable to fulfill this role in more than half the times he was required.
Once he was back on medication, the doctor put him forward for a MEB for Graves’ disease. This added more stress to him and as he was getting no support from his chain of command, he felt like he was being hung out to dry.
Things reached a point where there was a DA199 that found him unfitting for Graves at 0% and fitting for other issues which also included shoulder and knee injuries which he has a permanent profile for, and “other depressive disorder“.
His Commanders report was by the commander of the unit he was deployed to - not someone who knew him or even interviewed him about these issues. It was written after he had been taken off his duties, but stated he was perfectly capable of doing his job with no issue.
When we decided to push for a Formal PEB hearing, the JAG attorney we had at the time knew our case and thought we had a really good chance of adding PTSD and potentially getting the Graves’ disease recognised beyond 0%. When we got to the new attorney, he said we had no chance of anything, I should not bother prov testimony because a wife’s testimony is always biase and not really paid attention to. Buddy statements are not really useful but are nice to have - except in this case because the toxic environment that caused his issues beyond lack of medication were a specific person in his chain of command, and the rest of the chain doing nothing- and that’s not a FPEB case. The piece of evidence with the most weight will always be the Commanders statement and it’s shows he was competent, and we can’t go against that. We asked if we could say it was incorrect but he said no because it would imply that the commander was lying. And he never once told us to get a new one and that it’s required to be back in his hands in 5 days.
So we had to go with his best advice which was “other depressive disorder“ being aggravated by lack of medication and situation.

And nothing we did was of use. The medical officer on the board could see he had issues, but in the end, they kept the DA199 as it was amended to - Graves 0%, Disability separation, but he has his 20 year letter, is at the 22 year pay spot for E5, and has 4300~ points so is pensionable by 60 minus his deployment allotments.

I think I covered everything?

Thanks for the insight. I have to say if you had better legal advice you had a good chance of getting a different outcome. There still may be some options for getting this changed.

@Jason Perry
@johnbgately

What are your thoughts after reading this???

 

[CluelessNAlmostOutOfTime]

Ok, at this point the DA199-1 has just landed and I am thinking our best option is to use the (according to what I understand of the form) post FPEB VARR request. All his VA info for the rating was done in July of last year and he has got progressively worse (talks suicide every week, I am his working memory, I now do all the finances because he can’t manage them at all, hair trigger anger/distress response and so much more) mentally, as can be (barely- we can’t get him seen by the right people! Only mental health doctor he has seen since departing active duty is the one who treats him for his ADHD - even when he’s filled out and talked ab SI with his healthcare providers) seen by his current VA medical records, and his Graves Disease has not magically gone away.
So I have taken some redacted pictures of the new DA199-1 and his VA rating offer to see what you all think - is it worth pursuing this last avenue? And if so, is it worth getting a private attorney to help? We are (being totally honest) barely making it financially, and the VA payment makes all the difference to us. But I am not sure we have the funds for a bill of a few thousand dollars.
We have until Thursday of next week to decide and put in a VARR if we do go ahead with it from what I understand.
I am so sorry if previous information was disjointed or unclear - I am not in this military machine, nor am I in the field of law or medicine. And I have had to figure out most of this in the span of a week when I realised that our attorney wasn’t all I had hoped for in our case. I am not saying he is bad, but when you find out at 5pm on the Wednesday before your Tuesday hearing that he’s away until the Monday… It leaves you feeling very underwhelmed and panicked.

 

[Provis]

Ok, at this point the DA199-1 has just landed and I am thinking our best option is to use the (according to what I understand of the form) post FPEB VARR request. All his VA info for the rating was done in July of last year and he has got progressively worse (talks suicide every week, I am his working memory, I now do all the finances because he can’t manage them at all, hair trigger anger/distress response and so much more) mentally, as can be (barely- we can’t get him seen by the right people! Only mental health doctor he has seen since departing active duty is the one who treats him for his ADHD - even when he’s filled out and talked ab SI with his healthcare providers) seen by his current VA medical records, and his Graves Disease has not magically gone away.
So I have taken some redacted pictures of the new DA199-1 and his VA rating offer to see what you all think - is it worth pursuing this last avenue? And if so, is it worth getting a private attorney to help? We are (being totally honest) barely making it financially, and the VA payment makes all the difference to us. But I am not sure we have the funds for a bill of a few thousand dollars.
We have until Thursday of next week to decide and put in a VARR if we do go ahead with it from what I understand.
I am so sorry if previous information was disjointed or unclear - I am not in this military machine, nor am I in the field of law or medicine. And I have had to figure out most of this in the span of a week when I realised that our attorney wasn’t all I had hoped for in our case. I am not saying he is bad, but when you find out at 5pm on the Wednesday before your Tuesday hearing that he’s away until the Monday… It leaves you feeling very underwhelmed and panicked.

As I have said many times I would talk to an attorney ASAP. At the very least your husband should have counsel assigned to him. I would reach out to a private attorney to see what they say.

 

[CluelessNAlmostOutOfTime]

I have reached out to a couple of attorneys, one of whom is local but seems to have good reviews, results, and such. I am just having to wait on them to get back to me, and I guess I am just stressed and anxious about this. The other was Jason Perry, but considering what a hot mess this entire thread (and being honest, probably myself and the husband in the situation) is, I am expecting that our best bet with the time limits is the local attorney. Let’s hope they are willing!
We just had a really constructive conversation with one of the SNCOs that was on the deployment though, and they said they would happily write a supporting letter about the conditions as they are also looking to depart the army due to this deployment and how the people were treated.
I guess I just have to take a breath and let people call us back with information.