Years vs Points

DblTap1

DblTap1

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I am helping a fellow soldier with his RPAS and I'm stumped on a question.
He has accounted for all of the dates and has no argument for accuracy.

RPAS column for Creditable Svc For Ret Pay shows 18 years soon to be 19. However, Total points for Ret Pay column shows only 5310.

How does this balance? Do the points even matter as long as the RPAS shows 20 years? Or does this change the rate of pay?
 
That seems odd to me...the points calculation looks to work out to 14.75 yrs. My thinking cap may not be on, because nothing jumps to mind why he would have a discrepancy. First question I have is do the dates match up to 18 plus years (PEBD to now?). The RPAS should have a breakdown of the points, so I would look at each year and see if there are any years with low points. Are there any?

I don't think this should matter, but was there any type of delayed entry program, or credit for certain educational programs? Was there active duty time, either prior RA service or for mobilizations not accounted for?

It is very important to get to 20 years and qualifying for a reserve retirement (I am assuming he is facing an MEB/PEB either now or in the future). Doing so will qualify him for CRDP at age 60. When you ask whether it matters for "rate of pay" depends on what you mean. For severance pay, it is base pay that matters. For retirement , it is retired base pay (average of highest 36 months of base pay, though for reservists there is a provision that will "deem" them to have been on active duty for the preceding 36 months, an important issue in some cases).
 
Thanks Jason. It seemed odd to us also. His points per year for retirement pay range from as low as 59 to 365.
He has Delayed Entry, Active, out completely for 3 years, MDay, ADSW and AGR. They all look like they were accounted for.

The concern is that he will not have 7,300 points at the 20 year mark (365x20), and if lack of points that will be cause for a change in retirement pay.

I am assuming if the far right column "Creditable Svc For Ret Pay" shows X years, that's all that matters. And that the points are simply to account for the years.
 
I think it is the years of service that matter, so long as the member has at least 50 points a year:

"a) Except as provided in subsection (b), for the purpose of determining whether a person is entitled to retired pay under section 12731 of this title, the person’s years of service are computed by adding the following:...

(2) Each one-year period, after July 1, 1949, in which the person has been credited with at least 50 points on the following basis: (A) One point for each day of— (i) active service; or
(ii) full-time service under sections 316, 502, 503, 504, and 505 of title 32 while performing annual training duty or while attending a prescribed course of instruction at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned;

if that service conformed to required standards and qualifications.

(B) One point for each attendance at a drill or period of equivalent instruction that was prescribed for that year by the Secretary concerned and conformed to the requirements prescribed by law, including attendance under section 502 of title 32.
(C) Points at the rate of 15 a year for membership— (i) in a reserve component of an armed force,
(ii) in the Army or the Air Force without component, or
(iii) in any other category covered by subsection (a)(1) except a regular component.


(D) Points credited for the year under section 2126 (b) of this title.
(E) One point for each day on which funeral honors duty is performed for at least two hours under section 12503 of this title or section 115 of title 32, unless the duty is performed while in a status for which credit is provided under another subparagraph of this paragraph.

For the purpose of clauses (A), (B), (C), (D), and (E), service in the National Guard shall be treated as if it were service in a reserve component, if the person concerned was later appointed in the National Guard of the United States, the Army National Guard of the United States, the Air National Guard of the United States, or as a Reserve of the Army or the Air Force, and served continuously in the National Guard from the date of his Federal recognition to the date of that appointment.

(3) The person’s years of active service in the Commissioned Corps of the Public Health Service.
(4) The person’s years of active commissioned service in the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (including active commissioned service in the Environmental Science Services Administration and in the Coast and Geodetic Survey). "

I would think that the years of creditable service takes this into account, but I would look at if he has at least 50 points a year...my hunch is that with all the breaks/changes in service, he may have some years with less points than he would have if he drilled every month, did AT, etc., but may have 50 or more points. Does that capture the difference? My main thought is that if he gets a 20 year letter, he will be good (not that that is the deciding factor, if he is otherwise qualified, but it is good evidence that he has met the standard). My other question is does he have a choice, or is he being referred now to an MEB? Obviously, if he has a choice, he should wait till 20 years. But, if he does not have a choice, the point is moot, unless he can drag things out till 20.

Hope this helped.
 
Another thought, I was just thinking back to my own situation, I originally enlisted in the National Guard, it was like 5 months before I went to basic training, but my time counted from when I enlisted...because it was in the same year, though, I got a full year of points....I could see some situations where the opposite is true, member joins in the later part of the year, but does not ship to basic until the following year, or not early enough in the year to accrue 50 points in that year. Not sure if this is applicable at all, I am trying to imagine some circumstance how this would play out, but it is a bit hard because I am just working on hypotheticals.

Bottom line, I think my previous post really gets to the heart of the matter: 20 years with at least 50 points a year, he should qualify.
 
Do you know who is responsible for sending out the 20 year letters for NG, AGR folks?
 
This is just from my recollection, the state Joint Headquarters retirement section (part of the state J1) sends out the letter. I am going from my experiences years ago when I had a LT in my company who was AGR who worked full-time in the retirement section. I am thinking that HRC St. Louis tracks this, though, so I am not sure if there is some interface between them and state...short answer, no, I am not sure. But I am also thinking that they (retirement section) should have visibility of the actual eligibility for retirement. I would think that someone there should be able to shed some light on their take on his retirement eligibility. Not to say they definitely have it right, but if they are making the right noises that he is eligble in the coming year, that would make me feel better, if I were him.

I know there are a few AGR folks who are members here....any of you have any input?
 
Im not AGR but know more about it than most AGR.....

DblTap1 u need to go to your personnel clerk and ask them to print out the RPAM. U want a current one. U cant guess on retirement stuff. Then come back here and we will tell u whats correct or makes sense.

Do you know who is responsible for sending out the 20 year letters for NG, AGR folks?

In my state there is dept of military/civilians. Once your 20 good years have been attained that letter is sent to u. It will not be sent before the 20 years naturally. Some have asked that before. They dont care and I wouldnt either if you act like u r in a hurry to get the paper. And noone knows how long it takes because they have a stack from across the state to prepare so could be a few months or up to a year. That is why most do that 21st year so they get the letter between the 20th and 21st yr. I know it actually means that you have to do 21 yrs. You are not made to do that extra one but all I know have.

How does this balance? Do the points even matter as long as the RPAS shows 20 years?

Yes. The RPAM has to show 20 years for you to qualify.

Or does this change the rate of pay?

Yes. The pay is based on years, rank and points. SO if there are points missing you can go to unit clerk and ask to submit request to correct RPAM. Then I would foolow 2-3 months later and ask to get a new printout of RPAM to see if the sysytem kicked back the corrections. Naturally there has to be a paper trail for it to be corrected. SO u cant just make up a number to get it corrected. I wouldnt even fool with it if its only 5 pts or so. Not worth it. Dont even ask what that means. And I have experienced all of this so this is not guessing. Fact.

JAck
 
I just got my disability retirement orders and had been told that the army would use the higher of years vs points. I am reservist with 5,974 points and my Chronological Statement of Retirement Points states 24 years 8 months 17 days. On the orders it states disability retirement 13 years, 6 months, 18 days. Why do the orders say this and what does this translate to in dollars? Is there a way to calculate the retirement pay at an 80% disability rating?

Frank
 
Frank
IF you got an 80% medical retirement then all the points vs years is a wash. You will get 80% of your base base (although I believe the max payable is 70%) at time of discharge. That is how it worked for me. With 80% make sure you get yourself to VA and get that ball rolling. You aill at least get Voc Rehab and I am working on getting a clear understanding of CRDP. As reservist or guardsman we will get it, it is just a matter of when and how the interpert the law. I believe we should get it now but some people think that we won't get it until we are 60.
 
mxracer13,

This is what I have been told too, by my PEBLO, that I would get 75% of last basic pay. But the people at the WTU are telling me that they are setting up my retirement orders so that I get 75% of only the basic pay due to a soldier of 15 years of service. they are listing this on the retirement orders at Section 1405: 15 years, 8 months, 16 days.

They did this to another soldier in my WTU with the same number of years as I do, and Cleveland told him that since he did not have a 20 year letter he was not eligible for retirement pay. He is still waiting to receive his first retirement check, although he did tell me that the WTU is making corrections to get him paid.

Frank
 
So many errors here....

The entitlement to "final basic pay" calculation in lieu of "High 3" is when the member first entered service. It does not matter how many years of service you have. The magic date is September 7, 1980 or earlier. They are confused and/or wrong in focusing on your years of service.

Cleveland is wrong because as a Chapter 61 retiree, you don't need a 20 year letter....the letter is not relevant to anything, it is just good evidence that you have reached the 20 year mark....but for you, this will only matter when you hit age 60 and will become eligible for CRDP (so long as you are rated at 50% or more by the VA).
 
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