When does the harrassment end?

KCeeS

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
I am posting on behalf of my family and on behalf of my husband. My husband is a Third Class Petty Officer in the United States Navy, he has had an impeccable career and has the EVALS to prove it . I have been a silent follower of this forum for over a year. First, thank you for all who post on this site, your handy references to military instruction has been of great help on winning battle after battle.

My husband has fought and beat over five ADSEP attempts in the last five years. Three of those attempts were made this past year, with the last attempt coming to light today. At first, the ADSEP's were merely "needs of the Navy" and then progressed to "personality disorder". He, with the help of instruction, sheer determination, and a Congressman, beat those and everything was dropped. To our dismay, his command then started throwing a fit because of his legal appointments and for speaking to a Congressman. Apparently, his Master Chief felt that there was too many "eyes" on his situation. This interaction with his Master Chief resulted a shouting match and later turned into an NJP.



Before I get too ahead of myself, let me give you a bit of background information. My apology in advance for the length of this post, it could easily become a novel. My husband was injured over three years ago, while serving aboard a Naval carrier. It took him over a year to finally receive his shoulder surgery. He was placed on convalescent leave for 21 days and then ordered to return to the ship. He then had a shipmate fall down a ladder well on top of his shoulder, and re-injured his left shoulder and injured his right. Fast forward two months and he his transferred to A-school (PTS approved to change rates) and was doing well babying his shoulders---but then the PT started and he could not do pushups. He went to medical and was told his shoulder pain was merely stress related. In horror, I was watching someone I love physically fall apart. Long story short, he was denied medical treatment, slandered by a Navy doctor he saw once (this same DR also gave my husband's medical record to another DR without permission and was caught red handed by LEGAL), filed a Congressional, finally received two more shoulder surgeries, and then the chronic pain started. I, foolishly, thought after the shoulder surgeries, I would have my husband back. This was not the case. In the following months, he was FINALLY diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, Depression, and Anxiety (not ruling out PTSD)... He was then recommended for a PEB, skipping the MEB process entirely, due to the nature of his shoulder injuries. Oh, I forgot to mention he has over ten anchors holding his shoulder together now... But the shoulder pain was all in his head, remember?



Now, back to the legal mumbo jumbo... The day J (my husband) was served with NJP (due to allegedly yelling at his Master Chief), he was on convalescent leave for 30 days due to his final shoulder surgery. He was something like 14 days out from having surgery, heavily medicated, and ordered into work. His case manager had forgotten to fax in his leave paperwork, and the command thought he should be back...Initially, they thought 14 days was enough leave after surgery, but it turned out his shoulder was completely shredded and he needed the full 30. By the time we arrived at the command, the paperwork was already faxed in and they knew he was to be on leave longer. He was then ordered to LEGAL, I drove him and we were escorted by two Sailors from his command. Again, J was heavily medicated and in no shape to be doing any sort of business. Unfortunately, the legal office served him with a NJP. He, myself, and our ten month old baby girl, were basically trapped in a small office and J was told he could not leave until he signed the paperwork. He told the legal people that he was medicated and on leave. He refused to sign any paperwork. He was then yelled at by a MA1, who's only function was to act as Sentry, MA1 entered the small room and got into J's face, screaming that he would be held there all day until he signed... Enter a LCDR, who giggled when told J told her of his incapacity and his anxiety disorder, she allowed MA1 to continue his verbal attack too. That is until, I spoke up and ask her to order MA1 from the room because J was getting loud as well, and was at this point yelling back at MA1. I had to remind her that the whole damn charade reeked of unprofessional-ism and I had a baby in the room. She ordered MA1 from the room, he then had the audacity to stand in the doorway making rude gestures and still calling J out. I had to again intervene and ask that the MA1 leave. At this point, J is still being told to sign the paperwork and ordered to be read his rights. I finally told the LCDR that he was heavily medicated and in no shape to take on a legal issue. J was told he could leave, but guess who was waiting outside? Security. So, my one armed Sailor was escorted out of the building and detained. I had to pick him up from the Security office, and no charges were pressed.



We immediately contacted the Congressman's military liaison, who had helped out before. An in house investigation was done, J was put on temporary orders to a different command. For the last four months we had peace. The NJP was dropped and life was good again. J was literally one week out from submitting his PEB package and then all hell broke loose again. This time he isn't being served an NJP, he was once again served ADSEP paperwork. The reason this time? Misconduct, ART 89..."Disrespecting a superior officer". The officer in question? The LCDR who initially attempted to serve the NJP. I was there, folks. He never yelled at her. He did yell at the MA1, but not before the guy was spitting in his face and basically holding him hostage. We talked to his lawyer who then told us that during the initial in house investigation, the investigator refused to pick up J's evidence and talk to J's witnesses, who are high ranking officers based here as well. The CO here, has heard one side of the story. We have strong evidence against everything and it will never be heard. Why? Because J is 5 months away from serving six years and not eligible for an ADSEP board.


I guess I really do not have any questions, I really just wanted to vent and tell our story. Believe it or not, the story is really much longer and this is the condensed version. Haha... J has earned a Good Conduct medal and was on the Honor Guard, his EVALS are all outstanding. He is a good Sailor, he just got injured and then got sick. The Navy here decided to play dirty. Every time he won the battle they went back to the drawing board. All he ever wanted was to get better. Then he found out it probably wasn't going to happen, and he wanted his deserved benefits. I'm really not sure if that's going to happen now...



Thanks for your time.
 
Another horrible case in bone-headed 'leaders' trying to lead from a book, not from their gut.
 
This story just disheartens me...and really reinforces why I am just happy to be done with all of the military "bs". Good luck to you and your family. It is ashame that you have to have this additional stress placed on your lives right now. All you can do is push on. I think another congressional inquiry would be your best chance at fighting this injustice. God bless!
 
I'm so sorry to hear about you husband's situation. :( Unfortunately I've known to people who went through similar situations Army. It doesn't seem to matter how exemplary you were, when you are injured you are a POS. If you stay injured you are an even bigger POS. It shouldn't be that way. I've seen some pretty serious harassment and mistreatment of people who just want to be better, or move with their lives, but your hubby's case takes the cake. I don't know what else to tell you other than I'm so sorry to hear that and I sure hope you all are able to get some peace soon. Hang in there.
 
I'm so sorry to hear about you husband's situation. :( Unfortunately I've known to people who went through similar situations Army. It doesn't seem to matter how exemplary you were, when you are injured you are a POS. If you stay injured you are an even bigger POS. It shouldn't be that way. I've seen some pretty serious harassment and mistreatment of people who just want to be better, or move with their lives, but your hubby's case takes the cake. I don't know what else to tell you other than I'm so sorry to hear that and I sure hope you all are able to get some peace soon. Hang in there.

On a side note Kyanite, I wonder what words of wisdom TSgt Twitch would offer in this situation. LMAO...:D
 
Thank you all for the kind words. Unfortunately, the military liaison we were initially working with through the Congressman's office, has since left his position. We now have to explain our complicated story to a new person. I'm a praying that we get a prompt reply and another prompt investigation. This is blatantly an act of reprisal, due to the fact that J's original complaint against a Senior Enlisted Member of Command who turned off medical care. He had to wait thirty extra days for right shoulder surgery, due to this said Member trying to adsep because J wasn't world-wide assignable. (Due to illness) The irony is that J is on shore duty and NOT due to deploy in the foreseen future. It's simply another dirty trick to prevent his medical retirement and to improperly separate him.



I must also mention again, that J has no counseling documentation due to misconduct in his record at all. He just has outstanding evals from every command he has ever been to. I feel like due process is not being followed, I mean how can you punish someone and ruin their career without both sides of the story? This entire thing makes me sick.
 
Did you say you have the LCDR at legal reporting disrespect? This being the JAG?
 
So the command claims disrespect, then at a later time an independent JAG claimed disrespect ?
 
I must say that the JAG officer in question is not independent, since it was her office who had attempted multiple different ADSEP attempts, in the past year. All of which were dropped, but not without a battle of legality. The command's claim was obviously unwarranted, because that matter was also dismissed. In fact, I'm not sure what Article the NJP was founded on (which his Master Chief brought forth) , we were never given the paperwork. I can't tell you if it was disrespect or not, but I would assume so. That allegation was over the fact that his Master Chief was pissed that he went to his scheduled medical appointment, and spoke to a JAG lawyer and Congressman, about his medical care being essentially turned off.
 
KCees, oh boy, that is one hell of a situation... I would still work on the congressman, this is only an opinion and an opinion only: I would call the local media about the abuse that his chain of command is doing to him. I would also suggest you contact marchforward.org direct link here: http://www.answercoalition.org/march-forward/

They helped a friend of mine to finally get treated correctly by our CoC, the Battalion Commanders job was made impossible due to the fact of 200,000 phone calls and 30 news outlets calling his office in a two week period. Ended up like a petition for him was done up and had almost a half million signatures along with our congressmans. Least said, everyone including legal dropped it and the Post Commander stepped all over the Battalion. (It is kind of a leftist site, but they do fight for our rights.)
 
Grizz13, thank you. Months ago, I contacted a journalist from the Huffington, who also gave me resources for this situation. Unfortunately, a few of the contact numbers/email addys were old, and I didn't get very far. Our Congressman's office has been of great help so far, but as stated in my previous statement, they now have a new guy---which worries me a bit. Also, his previous case was closed and now it's like starting all over again. We have an appointment tomorrow with his JAG defense attorney and I will discuss going forward with press coverage. His attorney also suggest we contact an IG this time, but, man, it's so much documentation I'm kind of at a loss about where and when to begin with that. It's such a complex and complicated story. I find it very difficult to give a three paragraph statement without forgetting an important element. I mean, do we tell them EVERYTHING or just this latest mishap?



Also,JPHW, I'm not sure what direction you're heading in with your questions---but I can assure you that I was there and he did NOT disrespect that JAG officer. Did he lose military bearing with MA 1? Yes. But not before the guy was yelling that he could NOT leave (and he would be detained all damn day, until he signed) and spitting in his face with our BABY in the room. J didn't even get out of his chair, he just yelled back at that jerk. My family and myself have constantly been under great duress and mental anguish due to the non-stop attempts to instigate him into a position of insubordination. It is with heavy heart that I must admit that while under the influence of prescribed narcotics and days out of surgery ( on leave for goodness sake), he may inadvertently and involuntarily given these corrupt individuals what they believe to be a substantial incident for separation.
 
Also, he is no longer at the really awful command, he was transferred on temp orders after the Congressional inquiry. Sadly, since they're just temp orders this legal office and CO of this base still can pull the strings on everything. Good news is, his current temp command is supporting him 100%.
 
Could you also try calling the IG's office? I have heard that this is also an alternative to these type of concerns.
 
Ya...the so called military leadership standing behind their rank doing "bullshit" and casuse Airmen, Sailors and Marines all types of issues. Now, I really see and understand why the suicide rate is so high in the military. But life is so much worth it...To many so unprofessionals in the military at high ranking levels. Good luck and don't let them destroy your lives and keep up the great fight.
 
Please try and not get offended at what I am about to say here but it is something that I feel needs to be brought up. Your husband, based on your comments here, has a "habit" of responding incorrectly to people of higher rank when faced with cahllenges he feels are unfair. Yes it sucks. We have all been told we are trash and need to just suck it up at one point or another. But considering his interaction with the MA1 (which he could have handled differently), his CMC saying he disrespected him via yelling, and now this JAG officer saying he disrespected her shows a mile long trail of improper communication with his Senior Leadership. Whether warranted or not it appears based on the situation given that he is a common denominator with multiple different people in claims of disrespect. Perhaps he does not do well with dealing with these types of situation due to his pain, and I understand that. But, and this is just my advise so take it or leave it, if he wants a good outcome from all this he needs to start just taking his punches and responding in a calm and well thought out way. He should also start having some other military member, preferrably of higher rank if possible, attend any meetings he has as a "witness" of sorts. When questioned about the person's presence he can simply state he needs a 3rd party observer because he sometimes forgets things due to the pain he is in (it happens so it isn't an outlandish statement at all).

As to his situation of the command attempting to adsep him has his PEB paperwork been submitted officially? If it has the command will have a difficult time getting him out on an Adsep unless he does something that is agregiously a violation of the UCMJ.

I hate to say it but just as you said the command is only getting one side of the story, we here are only getting one side of the story. As someone that deals with people in bad situations often it is almost always true that one side has one story the other side has another story and the actual truth is found somewere in the middle.

Sorry for you and your husband's situation and I hope you take the information I posted above as constructive instead of as an attack against your problem.
 
Thanks crome45 and thank you bpreachers. I'm not offended in the least bit by your post. I haven't updated this story, but since it continues to get replies, I will take a moment to do so.

My husband won the battle, thanks to his attorney. His paperwork was submitted to the PEB board two months ago. Yes, my guy should've handled things differently, but given the circumstances , it was understandable and the CO agreed. He did have a 'history' of yelling at those at that command, that command also had a history of breaking rules/laws, including a HIPPA violation, all of which was recorded and presented as evidence. My husband ABSOLUTELY should've handled the situation better and differently, I agree. At the end of the day, had he kept his mouth shut and went straight to his attorney's office, my family would not have had to go through Hell. Live and learn...

I am forever grateful that we have since moved on. J is doing great, we're excited about moving on with our lives and leaving this mess behind us. Although, with the PEB going on, it's nerve racking. As a woman, (okay, I'll admit, I'm a bit controlling) it's hard not knowing when we're going to be out of here. We have three kids and I'm not able to plan a damn thing until we get the results back from the PEB.

Again, thanks guys. Whether you agree with how my husband handled the situation or not, you all have been respectful, which is appreciated.

Have a great week!
 
Thanks crome45 and thank you bpreachers. I'm not offended in the least bit by your post. I haven't updated this story, but since it continues to get replies, I will take a moment to do so.

My husband won the battle, thanks to his attorney. His paperwork was submitted to the PEB board two months ago. Yes, my guy should've handled things differently, but given the circumstances , it was understandable and the CO agreed. He did have a 'history' of yelling at those at that command, that command also had a history of breaking rules/laws, including a HIPPA violation, all of which was recorded and presented as evidence. My husband ABSOLUTELY should've handled the situation better and differently, I agree. At the end of the day, had he kept his mouth shut and went straight to his attorney's office, my family would not have had to go through Hell. Live and learn...

I am forever grateful that we have since moved on. J is doing great, we're excited about moving on with our lives and leaving this mess behind us. Although, with the PEB going on, it's nerve racking. As a woman, (okay, I'll admit, I'm a bit controlling) it's hard not knowing when we're going to be out of here. We have three kids and I'm not able to plan a damn thing until we get the results back from the PEB.

Again, thanks guys. Whether you agree with how my husband handled the situation or not, you all have been respectful, which is appreciated.

Have a great week!
Congratulations on the battle won! :) Let us know how PEB goes. Good luck.
 
Thanks crome45 and thank you bpreachers. I'm not offended in the least bit by your post. I haven't updated this story, but since it continues to get replies, I will take a moment to do so.

My husband won the battle, thanks to his attorney. His paperwork was submitted to the PEB board two months ago. Yes, my guy should've handled things differently, but given the circumstances , it was understandable and the CO agreed. He did have a 'history' of yelling at those at that command, that command also had a history of breaking rules/laws, including a HIPPA violation, all of which was recorded and presented as evidence. My husband ABSOLUTELY should've handled the situation better and differently, I agree. At the end of the day, had he kept his mouth shut and went straight to his attorney's office, my family would not have had to go through Hell. Live and learn...

I am forever grateful that we have since moved on. J is doing great, we're excited about moving on with our lives and leaving this mess behind us. Although, with the PEB going on, it's nerve racking. As a woman, (okay, I'll admit, I'm a bit controlling) it's hard not knowing when we're going to be out of here. We have three kids and I'm not able to plan a damn thing until we get the results back from the PEB.

Again, thanks guys. Whether you agree with how my husband handled the situation or not, you all have been respectful, which is appreciated.

Have a great week!

Congratulations! :)

I would offer to never default from what you believe is potential military injustice while serving as an Active/Reserve Component member of the U.S. Military.

Moreover, stay the course and remain strong until successful completion of the results you are trying to achieve.

Thus, I quite often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer."

Best Wishes!
 
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