Spinal Tap Mishap

B

branchjd11

PEB Forum Regular Member
SPINAL TAP MISHAP: I hope that someone might have some information related to my current medical condition. I wouldn't wish this for anyone. On 19 Sep, I had an allergic reaction to a migraine medication that produced stroke-like symptoms. So, I was rushed to a local hospital. They conducted several tests: MRI/CAT Scan/Chest X-Ray/Spinal Tap to confirm a stoke. Everything came back normal. The neurologist determined that the medication (Maxalt) caused the symptoms. I was taken off that medication forever. I stayed in the hospital for two days. I had some minor discomfort from the spinal tap procedure. Once I was released from the hospital and the pain medication wore off that they gave me, it was difficult to sit for more than 20 mins or walk any distance at all due to the pain in my back. I was placed on quarters for a 7 days and told to take motrin/take it easy. I should get better. I went back after that period of time and the doctor didn't even examine me. I was placed on quarters for another 3 days and he said that I would be better soon. After the appointment, I switched from the Pentagon Clinic to Bolling AFB. I had an appointment the next day (2 Oct). They did an x-ray and I was put in for an MRI. I have been waiting for the MRI...6 Nov was the only date available at any of the facilities in the DC area. The doctor placed me on Tramadol and Neurontin. The Neurontin helps with the nerve pain, but the Tramadol wears off quickly now. I'm able to sit in my office and work on the computer. I was placed on a profile for a few months until the MRI comes back. I can't lift anything (more than pounds), run, walk fast, etc...

Does anyone else have a similar experience/problems with spinal taps? Severe back pain, hurts to walk, pain going up stairs or hills/ramps. It even hurts to tie my shoes. I have to get my wife or my daughter to tie my shoe on my right foot.

My PCM thinks that I the civilian ER doctor did something wrong during the spinal tap procedure, but she didn't know what it might be...nerve damage and/or disc damage. It might be detected with the MRI or it might not.

I have my first physical therapy appointment at Bethesda the day after my MRI. Is there a treatment/procedure/exam that I should be asking for that could help this?

Is this a discharge waiting to happen if I cannot deploy, even though I can sit at a desk and still be productive? I'm a Logistics Officer in the AF. 15 years of service. I just want to get better and stay in the service. Plus, it would nice to get to a point where i could throw the ball with my son again or run again. I know that it depends on my MRI results, but if nothing shows up then I don't know what to do...

Thanks for your advice and info. I just needed to hear from someone instead of doctors saying it might get better or it might not.

Jason
 
branchjd11,

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear of your pain.

I had a spinal tap in 1996 for stroke like symptoms, and an excruciating headache from *ell. I couldn't speak or walk on my own. My fingers, toes, and limbs were tingling, and went numb. My spouse rushed me to the ER. They poked me with needles, and I did not feel it at all. The ER determined my symptoms where due to a migraine. I too was on placed on quarters for a number of days to recuperate from being ill.

I did not have any problems after the tap though. In May of 2006, I was hospitalized for stroke like symptons for about a week. They determined it to be a migraine, and that I had heart complications. My PCM and neurologist diagnosed me with TIAs (Transient Ischemic Attacks) due to the migraines.

I too had an allergic reaction to migraine medication that was prescribed to me by my civilian neurologist. The name was Topamax. I broke out with severe hives. I could not stop scrathing! Every body part and crease itched. I scratched away plenty of skin on different body parts. My PCM told me to report directly to the ER. The ER gave me an injection of prednisone which helped a lot. I can't even begain to explain the reactions I received on base due to the constant itching 2 days straight. I couldn't fight the urge, and I wanted to scream because everywhere itched terribly bad!

I used to be a 2S0X1(Logistics Tech.) in 1995.

Hopefully, someone will come a long with more input on your spinal tap. I hope you feel better soon.
 
This should help. I am going up for an MEB right now for a Spinal Tap (lumbar puncture) gone wrong. I went on base for terrible headache which lasted more than three days. I was sent to ER for a lumbar puncture. It came back negitive. They were looking for miningitis. During the lumbar puncture the Dr. hit the nerves in my back that go to my legs. I couldnt walk for 2 weeks and could barely get around for 3 months. My back has never been the same. One month after it happened they did MRI, Nerve conduct test, EMG, and they all showed nothing. One year after it started to get some what better. But still not the same. Two months ago I hurt myself at work, just moving a aircraft part. Went on base and got sent offbase. The new specialist after hearing my terrible story reaccomplished the tests. Knowing that they were not supposed to be preformed so soon after the nerve injury because it would not show anything. The MRI still came back negitive but the Nerve Conduct test and EMG came back positive for nerve damage. Damage from L3/L4( where the puncture was done in the lumbar paraspinal musculature) through the quadricep to the knee in my left leg. I understand the amount of pain you are going through. It has been 2 years since it happened and I finally got closure on it, knowing that I had it but no one on base believing me. Since the lumbar area of my back was so irratated for so long with no treatment it caused oesteoarthritis in the area. Once found on X-ray they are starting MEB process.
You should talk to your doc about my experience. I never found anything onlune that ever helped the process so this chance for me to offer my experience is truly gratifying.
This is what they have on me for the board...

Lumbar radiculopathy with numbness to the left lower extremity(nerves)
Lumbrosacral spondylosis(oesteoarthritis)
Chronic sprain/strain of the lumbar spine
(Another direct cause of the nerve damage is ED)
Depression and PTSD from the incident and entire process.
PLEASE if you have any other questions dont hesitate. dru
 
DruceDeVille...Thank you for your information! I would say that it is nice to know that someone has been through this same condition, but I don't wish this on my worst enemy. I tell people about what happened and some people look at me like I'm trying to get out of something. Others think that I should be discharged immediately from the Air Force. I appreciate you sharing your story with me. Thank you.

I had my MRI at Andrews last Thursday and I started Physical Therapy last Friday. I have to wait till 19 Nov for my MRI results to reach my PCM. The physical therapist gave me a few stretching exercises since she didn't have an MRI result to review. I have not heard of the Nerve conduct test or the EMG test. I will have to ask about those procedures if they are not brought up by my PCM on 19 Nov.

I wouldn't say that I'm depressed, but I could kick myself (if I could lift my leg that high) for allowing the spinal tap procedure in the first place. I do find myself thinking that my life/career is really in the toilet, but then I see other people at Walter Reed who are in worse shape. It's weird, but sometimes it feels like I still have a needle in my back where the procedure was performed. I know that it's all in my head, but that sort of freaks me out at times. Lately, I have popping sounds in my back when I get up from my bed or from a chair. It sounds horrible. I already had a previous back injury that happened on a deployment that resulted in a bulging disc and painful situps.

I'm just wanting to get better and it is frustrating that a medical procedure like this one can take you out of normal activity. Plus, I'm supposed to deploy to Afghanistan next summer for a year long deployment, but I don't think that is going to happen. Right now I would pay to just be able to run again.

Let me know how your MEB goes. Good luck and take care. Thanks again for sharing your information.

Jason
 
Glad to help. IF you just google the nerve conduct test and EMG you'll find the procedures. One they electrocute you mildly to track the nerve response, not that terrible and the other they stick a little wire into your muscles and listen for the nerve response, also not that terrible...Chronic pain can cause a great depression in a person. If i were you I would go to the Mental Health clinic and talk about the depression and PTSD of the entire ordeal. It could help you in the long run, and if you do have those probelms they will be documented and could help you if you do have an MEB or processing a claim through the VA once out...
 
DruceDeVille,

Thanks for the info. I looked up the procedures...not as bad as having an ER doc stick a needle in my spine.

Are you going to an MEB due to the inability to deploy, fitness standards, or is it part of the process of determining fit/unfit to stay in the service?

Thanks for your info and help again!

Jason
 
Yes, I can't deploy(not my choice) and the profile says only sit and do nothing and when that hurts walk around then sit again. No lifting, standing, walking for long periods of time. I could pass the PT as I am a PTL and in great shape maxing it out consistently but if I try to run I know I would hurt myself.
There is another thread posted that I replyed today you should read.
Its a sad sorry for most but its true and it will give you some insight.

PCM = Promises Constant Malpractice.
 
Well,

I met with another doctor concerning my MRI results. My PCM is almost impossible to see due to the appointment system. So, the third doctor in this chain of treatment at Bolling went over my MRI results. Don't get me wrong...the docs over at Bolling have been great, Tricare appointment system is horrible.

I do not have a herniated disc. That is some good news. I do have a bulging disc that has become worse since my previous back injury near the same location.

The doctor said that I might have nerve damage, but she was quick to not say "damage" officially since that might trigger an immediate MEB. She stated that it was nerve aggravation. I was given a longer course of treatment with physical therapy and she increased my nerve pain meds to double what I was taking. Physical therapy has helped me walk more upright and I can tie my shoes now without too much pain. Of course, I don't know how much of that is due to the nerve pain meds and the other pain med. I have found that I cannot take the increased dosage of nerve pain meds during the day since it makes me really dizzy. I noticed the dizzy periods before (1-3 hours after taking the med), but I was able to deal with them without impacting my life too much. With the increased dosage, I'm afraid to drive or go up/down stairs unless someone is around. So, I have been taking the increased dosage at night and the regular dosage during the day. I can work a regular day, but go into the 9 or 10 hour mark and I'm really hurting. All I want to do at that point is lie down and not move.

I have an appointment on Thursday with my PCM to go over my condition and my profile. The other doctor didn't want to produce a longer profile since I'm on track to deploy next summer. If the profile time overlaps any time of the deployment and kicks you off of it, then you have an MEB. She wanted to give me more time with physical therapy and see if my condition improves. She recommended a monthly profile. If I get to the point of not being able to deploy, then I will have several months (7-8 months) of working and being productive in the Air Force. Plus, I have progressed a little in my condition. Her rationale is that the AF would say that I was fit since I have been working for 7-8 months and I have been getting better. They would just return to duty, but find me non-deployable for a year. Then I would have to be re-evaluated to determine my deployment status a year later.

I just want to get better. How long should I go with the physical therapy treatment before I ask about a nerve conduct test/EMG test?

Any thoughts or comments?

Thanks

JB
 
I had an appointment yesterday with my PCM. The doctors at Bolling AFB have been great during this whole ordeal. She was encouraged that I had some progress with the physical therapy treatment and my nerve/pain meds. I'm supposed to continue my physical therapy for the next two months and I keep taking my nerve/pain meds. I have to see her again in two months to update my profile. At that time it will trigger an MEB since it would effect a deployment coming up this summer. I have been reading the posts concerning the MEB process.

Any thoughts on fit or unfit in regards to my condition? I have been able to work with the pain meds and the physical therapy has enabled my mobility to increase. I have only missed eight days of work since this happened on 19 Sep. I declined any conv. leave since the nerve pain meds allowed me to sit for longer periods of time. The only time that I have been out of the office have been for medical appoinments, physical therapy appointments and personal leave for a death in the family. My PCM continues to think that my condition will improve and my nerve damage/aggravation might actually be better in a year. The only reason that I would be going to an MEB is due to the deployment this summer otherwise it would be delayed until I have been on profile for more than 12 months. I guess that it will also depend on what the physical therapist states in her update later this month.

So, I'm sort of nervous about the unknown MEB world...

Take care
Jason
 
To All:
My MEB paperwork has been started. I was supposed to deploy in July with training to start for it in May, but I would not be able to conduct my duties due to the injury. Since my profile conflicts with a deployment, then it is an MEB action. My condition is getting better with physical therapy and traction, but the pain is only diminished a little. My mobility has increased, but I'm still not able to lift or carry anything heavy or run...not a good combination in a deployed environment.

The MEB office at Bolling is great and my PCM has been fantastic. I have a consult with Neurology next month so that my package will have a current (within 90 days) consult and then my MEB package will go to the local board for recommendation. The local board recommendation is not binding...it is only a recommendation to the MEB at Randolph. The local board recommendation is then sent with your MEB package to the MEB board at Randolph. MEB board at Randolph makes the determination. I was told to expect 10-12 weeks. I know that everyone wants a quick response, but we are dealing with the government/military here. Hurry up and wait is the standard motto.

My Commander/First O-6 in the chain of command completed the Commander's recommendation letter to the MEB board yesterday. I worked on this for a week before sending to him to review/rewrite/expand. This was a painless part of the process since I have kept him up to date on my condition and I have been working hard on every project that I have been assigned.

My goal is to stay in the AF and my Commander agrees with that goal. I would say to everyone in this forum that it is important to keep the your supervisor and commander informed of your condition. I have read the horror stories of those that have supervisors/commanders that are not supportive in their treatment and MEB process.

Another note: I noticed a comment about the LAS - Limited Assignment Status. This program is still around. I was provided the information since I was going to an MEB. It is for a member with 15 or more years of service and is motivated to remain on active duty, even though found unfit, he/she may apply for consideration under the LAS program. You have to meet all of the following requirements:
a) Have applied for LAS
b) Have a stable unfitting condition or one that is deteriorating at a slow rate.
c) Can be maintained in the military environment without adversely affecting themselves or their co-workers
d) Will not require inordinate medical care
e) Have expertise in a specialty that the AF needs.
You have to undergo an annual physical exam with continued retention contingent upon the results of the exam and the continued need for your grade and specialty. Members in the LAS will normally not be retained on active duty past 20 years of active service.

Take care to all and good luck with your treatment and MEBs
JB
 
Your spirits seem high. It is great that you are doing better. Keep us all posted.
Glad to help in the beginning,
dru
 
Part of my MEB saga: I had to visit Walter Reed Orthopaedic today for the final consult that my MEB package needed. The doctor there wants to perform a bilateral lumbar medial branch block for the pain. If that procedure work okay, then I will need to have a medial branch radiofrequency neurotomy. Has anyone had those procedures accomplished? The only thing that I hate more than snakes is a needle anywhere near my back.

Any info would be helpful...

Thanks

Jason
 
wow. my docs havent mentioned any of those. never heard of before. gonna do some research though. Have your docs talked aboot a spinal cord stimulator? there are some threads from me and rob aboot it. my docs wanna put one in me. right now they are doing traction 4 times a week at phyiscal theraphy. were they stretch my body on a rack to help the nerve. hasnt done much yet. BUT ifinally have some decent docs. :)
 
I had an appointment with my PCM today. We discussed the nerve block procedure that the WR orthopedic doctor wanted to perform. It could work to relieve the pain, but we are going to use the physical therapy treatment instead. I really don't want another doctor near my back with a needle. Since my physical therapy is working and I'm getting better, we discussed that the best treatment right now would be physical therapy, my pain meds and time. Now, if 6-12 months later I'm still at the same pain level and physical therapy isn't working, then it might be an option. My PCM is going to finish my package today and it will be sent off to the main board.

The nerve block procedure: the doctor would insert needles into the lower spine area and inject a nerve pain medication. It is only a temp fix...12-24 hours. If that worked, then the RF block would be performed. In this procedure the doctor would insert another needle with a RF probe that would basically fry your nerve endings causing the pain to go away and the nerves to regenerate. I'm told that this could last forever or it could only last 9-12 months and then you have to redo the procedure. We have a friend that has this procedure every year and it helps him get around.

JB
 
Sorry that I haven't been checking this board lately.

I finally obtained my MEB results this past week...7 Jul. The MEB stated that I should be returned to duty with a C-code for one year. For those in the AF, I was assigned a C-2 code. This allows the AF to deploy me to CONUS locations with a fixed MTF. I can deploy to OCONUS locations that have a fixed MTF with a waiver by the MAJCOM/SG. These include: AK, HI, Guam, England, Germany, Italy and Japan. I think that CENTCOM has fixed MTFs, but I was not able to find a list of those locations. I would imagine that Balad, Qatar and Kuwait have the facilities, but I don't know if the CENTAF/SG would grant a waiver.

My PCM wil conduct a RILO (Report In Lieu Of an MEB) during my next PHA (May/Jun) to determine if the C-code should be extended for another year or eliminate the C-code all together.

My PCM and the PEBLO staff at Bolling AFB have been fantastic during this whole process and the PT staff at Bethesda have been great.

Please let me know if you have any questions and I will do my best to answer them.
Take care, JB
 
I don't mean to bring a dead thread from the grave. I was doing some searching online as I had a spinal tap a little over a year ago. They had to puncture my spine 4 times in the same spot, and fill 5 vials to test for meningitis (which turned out to be Lyme's disease). The pain was so excruciating I was screaming and I'm not one to even change my tone of voice while experiencing pain. I also felt pains through my right leg and, er em genital area :) Which felt like electrical surges. All in all it was horrible and almost traumatizing in a way, almost like some sick twisted torture.

Anyhow I started getting spinal headaches where I couldn't sit or stand for more than about 4 hours without vomiting uncontrollably. Even applying the brakes while driving was painful enough to make me vomit, which kind of works out if your stopping for a red light or stop sign.

Anyhow a week later I started getting a chronic pain in my right leg. At first it was fine, it wasn't that painful, just annoying. Then it started to get to me, 20-25 days in if I was left alone in the office I would find myself swearing out loud and talking to myself. The ****ing chronic pain was driving me crazy. So I went to my doctor and he had a MRI done and of course they found nothing.

The leg pain went away about 2 months after it started. Now I just suffer from a sore back where they put the needles in. As you said before, it almost feels like someone's still trying to stick a needle in there or that there's already one in there. It sucks.

Did you ever find something to help you out?
 
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