PTSD and Depression

looking4help

PEB Forum Regular Member
I have been diagnosed with both PTSD and Depression. When the Army and the VA provide their ratings will each diagnosis be rated separately? I understand the minimum 50% for PTSD but do not have a clue if they will count the depression or lump it in with the PTSD.

Thanks
 
Jason or one of the moderators on here have a better idea....but i would say that they are going to most likely give you a combined rating depending on the severity of your depression. Just look up the VASRD on this site and you'll learn a little bit more....Someone will be along to help you soon...good luck my friend..
 
Policy is that each branch PEB is supposed to utilize the VASRD as the general criteria for ratings. For mental disorders, the criteria can be found in 4.130 located here:

http://www.warms.vba.va.gov/regs/38CFR/BOOKC/PART4/S4_130.DOC

Here is what I found:

anxiety disorders


9400 Generalized anxiety disorder

9403 Specific (simple) phobia; social phobia

9404 Obsessive compulsive disorder

9410 Other and unspecified neurosis

9411 Posttraumatic stress disorder

9412 Panic disorder and/or agoraphobia

9413 Anxiety disorder, not otherwise specified



mood disorders


9431 Cyclothymic disorder

9432 Bipolar disorder

9433 Dysthymic disorder

9434 Major depressive disorder

9435 Mood disorder, not otherwise specified
The rating for each condition is contingent on the degree as you will find in the rating schedule above. I'm not sure if the PEB will treat your depression as an underlying condition to PTSD or vice versa. The PEB may reason that your depression is simply a symptom of PTSD or is secondary to it. I'm not speaking with any degree of certainty here, just playing devil's advocate.

IMHO you would need to be diagnosed with major depressive disorder that is independent (in whatever way such a condition could be independent from a medical standpoint) from the PTSD condition, in order to be receive a rating separate from PTSD. That is of course, my opinion, and if I am absolutely wrong I hope someone will correct me. I hope I offered you something you didn't already know!
 
Thanks. My discharge summary from Ward 54 (repeat offender) lists:
PTSD
Major depressive disorder
Suicidal ideations
Chronic back pain. These are listed as 1,2,3,4 separate diagnoses. I have other chronic health issues too. Am starting the board process and was trying to get a best guess at what they are going to rate me??? Thanks.
 
This question is fairly straightforward. However, how it is applied is often complicated.

If the PEB is able to separate the symptoms and disabilities and attribute them to two or more diagnoses, and they find each unfitting, then you should be rated on them separately. That part is pretty straightforward.

The application of this is more problematic. It is common for the PEBs to either attribute all symptoms to one predominant diagnosis, or to state something along the lines of "it is impossible to separate the cause of the each symptom." Neither is a correct way to adjudicate the case. In the first instance, what should happen is the evaluation (NARSUM) should attempt to make a differentiation (if at all possible), to state the reason for the findings, or if not possible, to state why. In the second case, it is simply not the fact that most cases are impossible to separate. They have to try, and if they cannot come to a decision, they need to state why. If they do clearly, this at least gives you a basis to challenge the decision and comports with the laws requirement to fully evaluate a case. Just because it is difficult in some cases does not mean they can make a blanket statement without support.

Here is a case that covers this situation:

"In order to explain the relationship between these disorders, and pursuant to its statutory duty, under 38 U.S.C. § 5107(a) (formerly § 3007), to assist claimants who have presented well-grounded claims, the Board should have ordered (as it will be required to do upon remand unless it determines, on the basis of the current evidentiary record, that the veteran is entitled to a 100% rating), under 38 C.F.R. § 3.327 (1991), a thorough, fully informed, and comprehensive medical examination to (1) reconcile the diagnoses; (2) evaluate the veteran for the purpose of determining the existence of each of the impairments noted in the record; (3) determine the degree of disability, in terms of ordinary conditions of life, imposed by each impairment, if possible, and its relation to service; and (4) determine the extent to which each impairment contributes to the veteran's employability or unemployability. See Proscelle v. Derwinski, 2 Vet.App. , , No. 90-570, slip op. at 4, 6 (U.S. Vet. App. July 24, 1992); Cousino v. Derwinski, 1 Vet.App. 536, 540 (1991); EF v. Derwinski, 1 Vet.App. 324, 326 (1991); Green v. Derwinski, 1 Vet.App. 121, 124 (1991). The examiner must have the full medical record of the veteran prior to making the evaluation. See 38 C.F.R. § 4.1. Only after making such findings may the Board properly determine the appropriate disability rating for the veteran."

Shoemaker v. Derwinski, 3 Vet. App. 248, 254-255 (Vet. App. 1992)

All that said, the errors described above are very common in cases like these. The key to successful rating is a full evaluation at the MEB level.
 
Hello All,

I am also currently undergoing a MEB. I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and a Major Depressive disorder and given a P4 profile for psych. The narsum write up has them not connected to each other. I have been in the Army almost 18 yrs.

What I will share from my research on the regulation is that the MEB DR's will not stack diagnosis of the same series together IE.. say a RT knee arthritis is 9004 and the same with rt knee cart dmg. Now each series explains that different series numbers can each receive a rating; with that said each but psych. From what i have seen come back at the WTB while I have been assigned it really determines what Dr. had coffee or a good night with momma as to the rating. the standard for PTSD seems to be 50%; however will they the two psych conditions together or give you 50% each which would actually come out to 75% and be rounded to 80% for your rating.

Now with that said if you onlt get 50% for the two the VA will more than likely add 20% to just the MEB problems and then you can add in any other service connected claims. I would be interested to hear how your results come back and I as well should have mine back this week and will post the results.

V/R
Chris
 
Sorry to repost. Here is a direct copy of the federal regulation: This should give you a better fight for rebuttal if you by chance get 0%-30%

Title 38: Pensions, Bonuses, and Veterans' Relief
PART 4—SCHEDULE FOR RATING DISABILITIES
Subpart B—Disability Ratings
Mental Disorders


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§ 4.129 Mental disorders due to traumatic stress.

When a mental disorder that develops in service as a result of a highly stressful event is severe enough to bring about the veteran's release from active military service, the rating agency shall assign an evaluation of not less than 50 percent and schedule an examination within the six month period following the veteran's discharge to determine whether a change in evaluation is warranted.

(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 1155)
[61 FR 52700, Oct. 8, 1996]

 
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