Procedure to Initiate 15-6 Investigation on a Cadre Member

Bamboonga

Bamboonga

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I was just wondering if anybody knew if there's a form or anything that I can use to request that a commander investigate a cadre member.

I report to this person, and I also outrank this person by quite a bit. In intellect and grade. (yeah, yeah, I'm a tad bitter)

The claim is that I haven't shown up to PT in 2 weeks. I do PT with the cadre an hour before anybody else so that I can get to my CER on time. I have done so every day but one for the last 2 weeks. The day my alarm didn't go off I notified them immediately.

I have memory problems. So I was all set to talk to every single other cadre member who saw me there when this NCO apparently began a selective amnesia trip. Hell, the BC saw me there the very same day this jackass made the claim (to my NCM in case I didn't mention it).

So yeah, I have memory problems. But apparently, my Android does not. It remembers every single place I've gone since I first turned the thing on (which is kinda creepy but in this case it helps).

I hate to admit that I don't know how to do this, I've just never had the need. I've been punched in the face by a subordinate. We talked. Turned out his life was falling apart. I helped him put it back together again. We're still great friends.

I say this because in my entire career, I've never seen the need to request a 15-6. Today, I do.

One last detail - the NCO retiring within the month. If I file this, would it mean that the rest of their Soldiers would have to put up with him until they conclude the investigation? To be honest, I'd let him beat me nearly to death if it meant his platoon wouldn't have to deal with him the following day (or ever again)

Any advice would my pants ever-so-happy, and my platoon would probably be grateful as well.

- Bumblebeetoona
 
And what does this have to do with VA benifits,ssdi, or IDES or anything relive not to this forum?
 
Let's concentrate on the actual problem.

From what I read, you have an issue with a cadre member of the WTU that states you were not a PT Formation, correct?

Because of this there is some sort of discipline that the cadre member is trying to initiate?

Does this discipline state only that you were not at your designated place of duty and nothing else?

Your GPS on your phone shows that you were are the designated place, at the correct time?

If this is the case, you should be able to resolve this, in a civil manner, using the cadre members supervisor.

If you are unable to sit and talk to the cadre member and supervision, type up a professional memorandum for the record, attach the GPS record and present that to the supervisor.

This should solve your immediate problem.

Now to switch gears, I would think it would be particularly difficult for you to initiate a 15-6 investigation, however here is the regulation if you would like to give it a go.

http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r15_6.pdf
 
Soccer said:
And what does this have to do with VA benifits,ssdi, or IDES or anything relive not to this forum?
Click to expand...

Soccer, I must have misread the forum title. And I think I'm misreading it now. I'm reading 'Army Warrior Transition Units'. I'm not seeing the word benefits (or, as you put it, benifits, dawg), nor the acronyms VA, IDES, or SSDI. I'm brain injured, but as far as I know I haven't been diagnosed with agnosia or dyslexia. Yet. Perhaps I should mention it to my PEBLO. I'll try to keep my posts "relive not to this forum" from now on. If it wasn't apparent by the fact that I'm a CW2 reporting to an E-7, or that I have a NCM, or that I am in the CER program, I'm in a WTU. I'm curious to see now if any of your 7 total comments on this website AREN'T trolling/flaming.

But by all means, try flaming us again if you like. I suggest using spellcheck to your advantage? We'll work on syntax and punctuation at next weeks class.

----------------------------------------------END OF STUPIDITY ----------------------------------------------

gsfowler - If I hadn't been watching him do this (and worse) to every single person in the platoon for going on 6 months now, I would very likely just ignore it.

If I hadn't watched him recommend a SPC for an article 15 for following an order I heard him give her, I could certainly let it slide.

If I hadn't been hearing horror story on top of horror story about the crap this guy pulled prior to my arrival, I could easily look the other way.

Also, if I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell that this was a miscommunication, I would absolutely let it slide.

But the biggest reason I'm not confronting him with it...is because even now I haven't heard a single word from him about it. Not once. He didn't have the intestinal fortitude to bring this to me first...so, neither shall I. It also says to me that he knows what he's saying is total bullshlt.

This guy called my NCM and asked her to come to his office. He then told her that I haven't shown up for TWO STRAIGHT WEEKS of PT. I reported to him every single day. In front of people. Maybe he forgot one. Or two. Maybe even three. But he did not forget ALL 14 TIMES. He does things like this to a lot of Soldiers with memory problems. I watched him tell a Soldier he'd take care of his leave packet. As soon as the Soldier left, he ran it through a shredder. He thought it was hilarious.

Should I look the other way for this guy? I don't think so. I've been known to abide lazy Soldiers. I've even been known to do some of their work for them. But this guy is very hardworking. The things that he's pulled on Soldiers are specifically calculated to take advantage of their disabilities. Unfortunately for him, Leonard Shelby taught me a lot about dealing with memory problems, even before I had any.

As far as disciplinary action...I don't know how he could hope to prevail. Either my cellphone has been going to PT in my stead, I'm paying somebody to drive my phone to the gym, walk around for about an hour, and return my phone at formation, ORRRRR...he's a lying sack of shlt. He did once counsel me and threaten to separate me under article 635-200. I informed him that I'm not enlisted, and suggested he read a Manual of Courts Martial about how to reduce a CW2 using a reg with Enlisted in its five-word title. I gave him contact info for the SecArmy, SecDef, and the White House switchboard. Never heard back, so I'm guessing he never got the law changed to suit his preferences.

Anyhow...it looks/sounds like there's no form or set format. I guess I'll try an e-mail to the commander then. I think I can handle a professional e-mail...if I can manage to keep sarcasm out of it. Damn...this is gonna be hard.

Thanks fowler...explains why I couldn't find a form number lol.
 
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Please allow me to bring this back on track, my goal is to assist you with any potential negative issue.

In my opinion, due to your WT status and the goal of being in the WTU, you should only focus on your medical treatment plan. I know this sounds selfish and difficult, but it is what you need to have a successful transition.

If you tie up your emotions and resources defending others, you may not be able to take care of your own needs.

Since you are not currently facing anything administratively, just make sure you do a concise memorandum for the record, regarding what your nurse case manager has told you.

This will provide you with a simple defense in case the need arises. Once completed email it to yourself once completed to create a time/date stamp.

Continue to make your appointments on time, create a transition plan, refine it daily with adjustments accordingly.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sarcasm, you mentioned it, so I will respond.

You may not want to use a sarcastic tone. It is much easier to communicate straight forward, rather than putting up a defense.

I was a member of a WTU (Ft Bliss) and everything that you have annotated above took place there too.

I could have gotten caught up in the drama, my PSG was hell bent in making me a part of his problems and it would have been real easy for me to have been.

What I did was sit back, focus and center myself on what the true goal was (for me it was dual, get as health as possible, and navigate through the IDES).

This is where the transition plan comes into play. If you spend each and every spare hour daily focusing on your transition goals, you will not be present when any of the potential injustices that you see or hear about have taken place. This is not passive behavior either, since you are taking an active role in your own transition.
 
at the initiation of a 15-6, the soldier would be removed from his/her duties and placed in an admin/support position. He/she would not have contact with the persons/groups the investigation would normally involve.
Keep in mind I am giving you the answer from what I have seen as a recruiter, seeing others being investigated.
 
I...don't think I can do that. Which is actually the biggest sign I'm healing somehow.

Fact is...they can't fight him. Well, they could, but it'd be like getting into a barfight handcuffed.

I have advantages they don't. I can't be reduced. And kicking me out becomes exponentially more difficult simply due to my rank. I find it unfair, to say the least. If I don't use this unfair advantage for people who don't have it, why'd I get it to begin with?

I need to find a serious person to proofread all the sarcasm out of it lol.

I did find ways to busy myself...my CER keeps me at school from 0800 to 1700 3 days a week. Left 1 day open for appointments.
 
This is the regulation that covers the question:
http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r15_6.pdf

An appointing authority would need to decide that an investigation is needed. Here are the appointing authorities:

"2–1. Appointment
a. Authority to appoint. The following people may appoint investigations or boards to inquire into matters within
their areas of responsibility.
(1) Except as noted in subparagraph 2–1a(3) below, the following individuals may appoint a formal investigation or
board (chap 5) after consultation with the servicing judge advocate (JA) or legal advisor (LA):
(a) Any general court–martial (GCM) or special court–martial convening authority, including those who exercise
that authority for administrative purposes only.
(b) Any general officer.
(c) Any commander or principal staff officer in the grade of colonel or above at the installation, activity, or unit
level.
(d) Any State adjutant general.
(e) A Department of the Army civilian supervisor permanently assigned to a position graded as a general schedule
(GS)/general management, grade 14 or above and who is assigned as the head of an Army agency or activity or as a
division or department chief.
(2) Except as noted in subparagraph 2–1a(3), the following individuals may appoint an informal investigation or
board (chap 4):
(a) Any officer authorized to appoint a formal board.
(b) A commander at any level.
(c) A principal staff officer or supervisor in the grade of major or above...."
-------------------------------------

ALCON- Cease the unhelpful attacks or exchange of posts. Not needed, and they won't last long here.
 
I am neither army, nor in a WTU, but I will offer my advice as an NCO and a mentor and one of those sappy guys that has fallen on his sword many many times to aid troops.

IF this nco is pulling this crap, then it is your duty as a ranked individual to do what you can do to remove him from the position of being able to inflict pain/suffering or just endless bullshit on others without due cause. I may be shedding the uniform soon, but 75% of the kids I put in as a recruiter 10+ years ago, and almost every one of my troops rather directly supervised or just chose me because of my attitude to be their mentor, still have my personal email and phone and I will continue to aid my Airman however I can, wherever I can.
 
TSgt Twitch said:
I am neither army, nor in a WTU, but I will offer my advice as an NCO and a mentor and one of those sappy guys that has fallen on his sword many many times to aid troops.

IF this nco is pulling this crap, then it is your duty as a ranked individual to do what you can do to remove him from the position of being able to inflict pain/suffering or just endless bullshit on others without due cause. I may be shedding the uniform soon, but 75% of the kids I put in as a recruiter 10+ years ago, and almost every one of my troops rather directly supervised or just chose me because of my attitude to be their mentor, still have my personal email and phone and I will continue to aid my Airman however I can, wherever I can.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of dynamics that play out in a WTU that make things a lot less simple as this. The command structure in a WTU is not one that is well equipped for an officer of higher rank to attempt to intervene, or mentor a NCO that is above him based on duty position. It creates a lot of conflict and the natural assumption that he has a "hard on" for the NCO because he doesn't like answering to an NCO. There are some very established beliefs about how people of higher rank create a lot of issues in the WTU. Right, or wrong, it exists and makes solving a problem in a short amount of time that you are in the WTU very difficult.

I am by no means saying to shirk your duty to do the right thing, because you are legally required to do that. What I am saying is when it comes to a difference in leadership, or the way you go about things it has to be handled in a way that is a lot less direct. You don't have the command authority, the trust you built with leadership, or the time to change the environment.

Do you think in a situation where an NCO has a bullying, or less than desirable leadership style that is a few months from retirement, will be investigated for something unless it is seriously illegal? I don't know an officer, or senior NCO in the service who would pursue an issue like this. It creates conflict, organizational differences, and can seriously mess with overall moral. Anytime an officer goes after a senior NCO, near retirement, it is perceived as class warfare. It rallies the base, and becomes very partition. The purpose of the WTU is to get better, or transition, and as gsfowler said, energy spent fighting this battle takes you far away from that mission.

Joe

Joe
 
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