PDBR-BCNR Question should I put my case on hold?

B

Bubblehead1975

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
First I have say thank you to all my Brothers and Sisters for their service!
I am also am grateful for this Board and the service it provides, and for that I specially want to thank Jason Perry and Maparker for all the great information I really appreciate your time and service. I have been using this website for at least 6 months (just being a silent reader) but what a great wealth of information! It has helped me tremendously already (Man if I this site was available in 2002 when I exited the Service in 2002 lol).
Ok my back Story.
I medical boarded in the Navy after 8 years and 8 months of service.
On my Informal Physical Evaluation Board Proceedings (is there a form number for Navy? nothing written on the form, I know army is DA FORM 199)
I was found Unfit for Right shoulder instability status post two surgeries and awarded:
10% (shoulder)
I was discharged Sept 2002
I put a claim in to the VA and in March 2003 (6 months later) I was awarded:
30% shoulder
10% Adjustment disorder with Anxiety (I was on medication and being seen my last year in the Navy by a psychologists once a week) (this probably be a lot higher but on my C&P exams for the VA, I was very positive and held back, I did not want a mental condition going into the work force…I know stupid).
I see 3 errors on my PEB
  1. Only one condition was rated, the Anxiety was not even looked at, and it was also a unfit condition for me to return to submarine duties (which was the cause, after a 5.5 year tour which 5 years was spent inside the 365 foot tube)
  2. My PEB said my shoulder injury was not combat related, but it was combat related. I have 2 messages one from JAG and the other from COMNAVPERSCOM saying other wise and my severance pay was TAX FREE (because it was in a combat zone when injury occurred). Which only proofs the error even more (severance pay that has long been paid back from VA checks)
  3. Finally they were off by 3 years how much service time I had. (lots of errors for one page)
In September 6th 2013 I asked BCNR to review the PEB and pointed out the 3 errors and ask them to review the Anxiety for an unfit condition. (Mainly if I get approve on retirement I may be eligible for CRSC)
Also September 4th I asked the PDBR to review my disability separation to disability retirement.
Given that I was rated 10% by the Navy and within 6 months the VA rated me 30% given the research I have done I feel the erred going by the 2002 edition of the VASRD (I think even the VA low balled me should have been 40%)
Anyway finally I get to my questions, so sorry for the long story.
I know the PDBR is a one shot deal, my guess is that as of right now I have greater then a 50% shot of approval, (from research and other PDBR Rulings I read online, but total guess) so should I call the PDBR and request my case be put on hold? And wait for the BCNR ruling and see if they will add the anxiety to the PEB as an unfit condition, so at that point the PDBR can rule on that condition also, pushing my chances of retirement way up? Or is it even worth it? For BCNR it been 11 years , I know after 3 years it is only in the interest of justice, does this even meet that threshold?
ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, INSIGHT, AND EXPERICENCE ARE VERY WELCOME!
Take care all
 
@Bubblehead1975 Welcome!

Glad you have found us and that the PEB Forum has been helpful.

Here are my thoughts on your post. First, you seem to be eligible for consideration of at least some of your issues by both the BCNR and the PDBR. However, it also seems that there is overlap between the issues you have raised before both boards.

I won't address which board is better for each issue raised. I will only talk about sorting out what each board can consider and what makes sense to request. Seems to me you may want to alert the BCNR of the claims you have made before the PDBR and ask that the BCNR not consider (or that you withdraw so much of your claims) the claims you want the PDBR to consider. Again, I am not weighing in on what board you should apply to- just trying to help sort out the issues with the overlapping claims. If you are to follow that course of action, seems to me you will take out the issue of having overlapping issues considered by two concurrent review boards. The issue of your submissions are substantively complicated, so I am only trying to offer thoughts on how to "untangle" your claims. However, it is a very complicated (and interesting) issue of what happens if you get conflicting responses from your claims before the two boards. Of course, I would argue that whatever favorable outcome you might receive is the correct one (that situation might arise if you did nothing further and did not withdraw any claims before one or either board).

Another point to be aware of is that any issue you did not raise before the Navy in the administrative appeals process is likely to be waived should you attempt a later judicial appeal. I tend to think you have a statute of limitations issue with any judicial appeal becasue your separation was in 2002. However, given the new issues you have raised as a basis for separation (apparently for the first time) you may have an argument that there is jurisdiction for the "new issues", more than six years from your discharge, notwithstanding (this last point is a very complicated procedural issue).

I hope all works out in your favor. Best of luck!
 
The BCNR/BCMR application deadline is three years from the date you became aware of the error or injustice, not three years from separation. And, indeed, the three year limit is often waived in the interest of justice.

Mike
 
Jason and Mike

Talk about quick responses, thank you!

Mike, appreciate the information, I did not know when the 3 year window began, for the BCNR, good news!

Jason, thank you for your valued points, overlapping and tangling up my case over 2 boards at same time may not best course of action, thru a storm of bureaucracy.

I do not want to lose my opportunity for PDBR review by asking the BCNR to correct errors. Please input if you think this may occur. I will drop my case with BCNR right now, forget the whole thing with them and only use the PDBR.

But please correct me if I am wrong

At the time I put in these cases my mindset was of course on time it takes (maybe lack of patients on my part) we are not talking just a few weeks of wait time for a review lol.
I know you can only take one path of review for a possible approval of disability retirement (30% or higher), the PDBR or BCNR. They are both “one shot deals” (cannot try the other if unhappy with the decision of the one) this is why I put both in at the same time.

PDBR: This is the board I chose for my case. I want PDBR to review my PEB, as far as reevaluation of my disability ratings for disability retirement. Their approval rating is 50% (advertised by them) and I have read as high as 61% for disability retirement. But they cannot make changes to PEB or review things not on the PEB.

BCNR: I do not want them to review or reevaluate my PEB for a rating. I was specific and stated I only want them to fix 2 obvious errors, and ask them to look at the anxiety, as a possibly to add on as an unfit condition, and if the BCNR did add it, then rate only the anxiety.


This is information I submitted to the PDBR board (on the DD FORM 294):

I will be requesting The Board for Correction of Naval Records (BCNR) to correct the following errors on my Physical Evaluation Board Proceedings (PEB) dated 3/1/2002.
1. Disability "did" result form a combat related injury as defined by Title 26 U.S. Code Section 104 (b)(3) (listed as "did not" result from)
(I will be including 2 messages that state my disability was combat related)
2. Length of service at the time of PEB was 8 years 2 months (not the listed 5 years 2 months).
3. My PEB was limited to only the orthopedic examination and did not include my Adjustment disorder with anxiety, I will be requesting BCNR to add and rate the adjustment disorder with anxiety. I of course will not be requesting for the BCNR to review my right shoulder, I am respectfully asking your honorable board to review my shoulder rating for error.

Taken form PDBR website:

“If you file with the PDBR, you cannot ask your service BCMR/BCNR to review issues that the PDBR can consider; you must chose which forum you want to hear such issues. These issues are primarily: whether you should have received a higher rating for medical condition(s) that resulted in separation; whether you should have been found unfit and rated for other conditions that were considered in your DES evaluation. However, if you go to the PDBR, you can ask your service BCMR/BCNR to review other issues, such as whether other conditions should have been considered by the DES (but were not). If you do not go to the PDBR, you can ask the BCMR/BCNR to consider all of the issues relevant to your separation, including the conditions actually considered, those that should have been considered and the rating that was, or should have, been awarded. Thus, the BCMR/BCNR is a one stop forum whereas the PDBR is more limited in what it can and will review. Example: You were found unfit for a back problem and separated at 10 percent for this condition. You also had asthma problems considered in the DES process, but they were not found to be unfitting and thus were not part of your disability rating. Furthermore you had headaches which were not even considered by the DES system. You may ask the PDBR to re-evaluate your back injury rating and can ask it to find unfit for and rate the asthma, but it will not consider the headache issue. In contrast, you could ask the BCMR/BCNR to change your record to show you were found unfit for all three conditions. If you do not go to the PDBR, you could ask the BCMR/BCNR to consider all three. If you have been to the PDBR, the BCMR/BCNR will not review the issue of the ratings or unfit determination for the back and asthma, because you had these issues reviewed by the PDBR. Because the PDBR could not review the headache issue, the BCMR/BCNR will consider whether you should have been found unfit (and received an additional rating) for the headaches after a PDBR review.”

I hope I am not shooting myself in foot by trying to correct errors on my PEB with the BCNR. By losing my opportunity with the PDBR

I think as it stands right now I have a good chance with the PDBR, granted a better chance if the BCNR made a correction to my PEB by adding an unfit condition.

I see now I have 2 options

Option A. Cancel the BCNR correction request, and just wait for PDBR to rule.

Option B. Put a hold on PDBR, wait for the BCNR to rule on correction on PEB, and then continue with PDBR with the updated PEB (this option has a possible better chance at a favorable ruling from PDBR, if the corrections to PEB go in my favor from the BCNR, but this could all blow up in my face if somehow I lose my opportunity for PDBR, in the fact that someone might look at it as, I already had a ruling from BCNR, this would be unlikely from what I read)

again any help, COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, CORRECTIONS, INSIGHT, AND EXPERIENCE would be appreciated

Take care all
 
Last edited:
"My PEB said my shoulder injury was not combat related, but it was combat related. I have 2 messages one from JAG and the other from COMNAVPERSCOM saying other wise and my severance pay was TAX FREE (because it was in a combat zone when injury occurred). Which only proofs the error even more (severance pay that has long been paid back from VA checks)"

Having the injury occur in a combat zone does not make it combat related. Having it injured in a combat zone does make it eligible for enhanced severance pay. Enhanced severance pay is not offset by VA compensation. However, to be eligible for enhanced severance pay you must be separated on or after 28 January 2008. Enhanced severance pay does not make the severance tax free.

Mike
 
I am posting on this thread because my case is similar to the above posts.

I recieved the PDBR letter back in May 14 and promptly submitted it. I, like many here, thought there was a significant oversight in my discharge. I was medically separated in June of 2009 after nine years of service,for a shuolder injury that occurred while PTing. The Navy did surgery and it never healed. So they separated me. I recieved 10%. I also only received 10% from the VA.

I have began to educate myself and think that I might have screwed myself by submitting the PDBR letter so fast, without knowing it was a one time deal. I have been waiting for the "request for increase" with the VA to come back to me. I submitted that request for increase at around the same time I received the letter, ironically. My thought is that if the VA increases my shoulder rating to 30 or more that the PDBR has an increased chance at following suit.
Should I contact the PDBR and ask to put my case on hold? I have read through many of the threads and it looks like that is a possibility. I tried calling the number posted on a few threads, but it appears incorrect. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
 
Sounds reasonable to try to ensure you have enough evidence before submitting (or continuing with) your PDBR case.

One thing caught my eye in your post, though. It is unclear if you asked for an increase from the VA (which would speak to your present disability) or if you challenged the original award for your shoulder (which would address what is relevant, your disability at the time of your separation).
 
I did not challenge the original nor ask for an increase. Does anyone have the contact information to call and place the case on hold? Are there any solid timelines for the PDBR cases currently being processed?
 
Here is the contact info from the health.mil/PDBR website:

Contact Us
If you have further questions about the PDBR, contact: usaf.pentagon.saf-mr.mbx.PDBRPA@mail.mil

Mailing address:
PDBR intake unit
SAF/MRBR
550 C Street West, Suite 41
Randolph AFB, Texas 78150-4743
 
Irishskimmer

Just FYI, so you can have a recent timeline to help in a decision, My case is still pending :-(, I submitted my request early September of 2013 so it approaching 11 months, some cases go a lot quicker, the PDBR board is very friendly to replies. I emailed them the end April and they told me "my case was recently adjudicated and will be sent to the Navy soon, and if I had not heard anything 60 days to contact them again" (they will not tell you the PDBR ruling until your military branch is done with theirs. because they may not go along with the PDBR recommendation) I emailed PBDR again after the 60 days,(Early July) and they replied with an apology and stated my case is still needs final PDBR review and signature, and has not been sent to the Navy as of yet. (ohh well) once PDBR sends it off to the Navy (your military branch) they have 45 days to take action and 10 days to notify you (total 55 days). So hopefully soon I will have a decision soon the earliest being end of August

the following I found helpful in my case:

to look at all the finished cases the PDBR has done, used to be a direct link from the PDBR website but they just recently updated their site and they no longer have this as a link. copy and past this link

boards.law.af.mil/AF_PDBR.htm

you can get a feel for how they rule and what they are trying to do
 
Irishskimmer

some more info I found

PDBR is only a recommendation to your military branch.

30% is the Magic number for retirement if PDBR rates below 30% of course your military branch will agree with there decision 100% of the time.

this is where it gets interesting if they recommend a change 30% or above (change to retirement)

the following I read somewhere but could not find again to post the source

Airforce 100% agreement with PDBR (of course they run the program)
Coastguard 100% agreement with PDBR
Army 99% agreement with PDBR
Navy 96% agreement with PDBR (sucks for us in this Instance to be Navy)

so even if we were recommended by PDBR for a change of status to retired, Navy might scuttle that :-(.

PDBR looks at your VA ruling, specifically within 12 months after your separation.

The cases that do not match between your PEB board (Navy) and the VA. By using the VARSD that was in effect at the time of separation. As the PEB and the VA should have used when they made their decision.

Basically why did they Navy award this sailor 10% and the VA less the 12 months later award the same sailor 30%????? the million dollar question.

So in you case they both match, PEB Navy 10% and VA 10% so unless you can get the VA to correct there ruling (not sure if you can even do that?). PDBR will look and see both agree and will agree also, and not recommend a change for you. I may be wrong, but that is what I gather.

In my case I was discharged from the Navy with 10% and the VA 3 months later gave me 30%, I used to think my case was a slam dunk. but now it worse then that, cause the PDBR using the VARSD for 2002 has to found a mistake the Navy did in my rating for 10% :-(.... so you see the chances are no so sweet as it should be. my guess I have a 50/50 shot either they will recommend a raise to 20% which means nothing or give me the real deal 30% :) I can only hope!!!! and since my case will be close, the good old Navy may step in and sayyyyyy ahhhh nope! on that PDBR 30% recommendation we want to put the old proverbial screw on this sailor.

look into VARSD, the shoulder can fall if memory serves like 3 to 5 different codes. there are many factors on ratings. range of motion, arthritis, it is my dominant hand, pain, fear of dislocation, and it still dislocates, to name a few.

In My case I could have fell under many different shoulder codes.I had 2 surgeries the VA gave me 30% because of my limited range of motion, it is my dominant hand, I have arthritis in my joint, it still dislocates, and I have a fear of this cause I guard my shoulder constantly. hoping that the PDBR agrees and say PEB you suck you did not do this......and you were wrong lol....cross fingers.

well brother I hope this helps and you get what your after. not always fair that for sure. an example

I was reading one case of a guy who just came into the military was in 6 months and before deployment was diagnosed with sleep apnea needed a machine at night (no power trucking in the mountains of Afgan) so was discharged and the Army gave him 0% for his sleep apnea, went to PDBR years later, Sleep apnea by VARSD if you need a machine, 50% cut and dry, not as abstract like a shoulder, and the PDBR said obvious mistake and awarded 50%, and in this case he got retired. Now not downing any veteran, good for him! but I have a Dad and a brother that have the same thing, and it no big deal putting a mask on at night blowing air, has no life altering effects at all from there own words. my shoulder had definitely impacted my life, as i am sure yours has. I could no longer go into law enforcement like I planned, pain, and so forth blah blah woe is me lol, but you get the picture if they do not retire me at this point, I will be a little on wow i got a big pain in my backside feeling ;-).

Good Luck
bubblehead
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately, for the second time in the many years we have been here, irishskimmer was banned from this site for both violating site rules and making threats to the site (and me).

But, thanks for your input. It may help others! (And, I truly do hope that irishskimmer gets a good case outcome).
 
Jason keep up the good fight brother!
I know I am speaking for 99.99% of the many brothers & Sisters on here who have benefited from your site...Thank you!!!
The other 0.01%..... just kinda scratch your head like the rest of us.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top