NO PHA before 3 failed PRTs!!

tracy2014

tracy2014

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I posted about my husband's situation in another post last week but we found out new news today.

My husband failed 3 PFTs and is being separated in 30 days....possibly with NO separation pay. We just found out that the last PHA that he had was in October of 2006!!!

To my knowledge my husband should not have even taken the first PFT in October 2008, much less the two that followed that.

I would think this would TRUMP everything. We are waiting to hear what our local jag on base says but in his office today he pretty much said if we don't have a current one then we need to take all of this info to the new CO of the base. The XO of the base has been the guy handling all of this crap for the past year or so and the new CO only knows what this XO has briefed him on. I bet none of them realize just how incompetent the command has really been.

I'm hoping and praying this is our ace in the whole and that they don't try and pull the ole "well your an officer and it's up to you to have a PHA and not your command" Could they get away with that?
 
A yearly Preventative Health Assessment. With a check up from the doctor every 3 years.

They might say it's just as much the member's responsibility to book it. They can say that. And do often. What were your husbands health problems?

Also, a PHA would not prevent you from PT testing because you don't always see a physician.

And they are covered because your husband has to sign a health clearance form before testing stating he has no health concerns or issues preventing him from taking the test that day.

My co-worker just got out for PT failure. She did receive a seperation severence, not the medical severence. You're husband would still get VA benefits also.
 
Tracy2014 what branch is your husband in? I am in the Navy and you are required to get a PHA or at least have a valid one before you take the PRT. But in the Navy you can be seperated with 1/2 severence pay if you are out of body fat standards, If you fail becuase of a portion then, now, you get no severence you are just adminstrativly seperated.
 
He had a MEB. If that was done correctly, it should have documented his conditions and their impact on his ability to do his job.

Mike
 
Amygal82 said:
A yearly Preventative Health Assessment. With a check up from the doctor every 3 years.

They might say it's just as much the member's responsibility to book it. They can say that. And do often. What were your husbands health problems?

Also, a PHA would not prevent you from PT testing because you don't always see a physician.

And they are covered because your husband has to sign a health clearance form before testing stating he has no health concerns or issues preventing him from taking the test that day.

My co-worker just got out for PT failure. She did receive a separation severance, not the medical severance. You're husband would still get VA benefits also.
Click to expand...

As far as what I have read that form he signed is a PARFQ (Physical Activity Risk Factor Questionnaire) and what I am referring to is a separate Periodic Health Assessment (PHA) that must be current and done with in a 12 month period prior to the PFT. It is listed in the OPNAVINST 6110.1H PERS-676 15 Aug 05 as the Command Fitness Leader (CFL) responsibility to check each participants PHA. In this case, it is our command XO. Yes, they can still say that it was my husbands job to have a PHA but it is written in black and white from SECNAV that it rest on the CFL's shoulders to make SURE.



gunmate1 said:
Tracy2014 what branch is your husband in? I am in the Navy and you are required to get a PHA or at least have a valid one before you take the PRT. But in the Navy you can be exasperated with 1/2 severance pay if you are out of body fat standards, If you fail becuase of a portion then, now, you get no severence you are just adminstrativly seperated.
Click to expand...

Yes, we are Navy. My husband failed two with poor body fat standards and the PFT part, the last and 3rd one was just failed due to PFT. He couldn't finish the mile and a half....due to his health. So we do not even get the 1/2 severance pay.


maparker said:
He had a MEB. If that was done correctly, it should have documented his conditions and their impact on his ability to do his job.

Mike
Click to expand...

They never did a MEB ( I thought they were suppose to do that before they even did the BOI) but after the BOI then we got them to send him to an informal PEB. They declared Fit for Active Duty. As far as I know they were focusing on the fact that all of that stuff could be treated and he can be back to duty. We appealed it but they denied a Formal PEB and said we can not appeal again. Then we got the Ax.
 
No changes so far. After speaking with our JAG he recommended that we meet with the CO of the base to try and get him to stop that. We tried to set up an appointment and got a call back from this lovely XO (that is doing all of this) and he basically let us know if we had any questions to direct them to their base lawyer.

Called our congressman's office and basically spent all morning long defending my husband because the guy said it sounds like they followed Navy protocol and it is my husband's responsibility to get medical care. ugh! yep, it is. and I'm sure in his state of mind (of being suicidal at the time) he was all for finding help...because he was thinking very rational at that time.

Chief of Chaplains office said 3 chaplains actually got the boot and tomorrow the second in command goes to the Admiral to ask him if he wants to save any of them. I wish I could have a one on one with the Admiral today. We still have 23 days to try and do something!!!
 
What do we do now that there is no longer a requirement for physical
exams?

The requirement for routine physical exams (5-yr physical) to serve as clearance for
participation in PRT or physical conditioning is cancelled. Manual for Navy Medicine
Article 15-9 Periodic Examinations for Active Duty Personnel on page 15-10 states
"Routine periodic physical examinations are no longer required for active duty
personnel including flag officers. Please see OPNAVINST 6120.3 series for
guidance on the Preventive Health Assessment.” PHA now serves as the clearance
mechanism for participation in command physical conditioning programs, the fitness
enhancement program (FEP), and the PRT. All Sailors must complete the physical
activity risk factor questionnaire (PARFQ) prior to each PFA cycle. However, the
block at the bottom of the PARFQ should only be completed and signed by a
medical provider in cases where members do not have a current PHA or who
answer "yes" to any question on the PARFQ (unless they were previously cleared to
participate for that response and the condition has not worsened and no new risk
factors are present).





Did your husband answer yes to his PARFQ? It would help him if he did, that is all I meant.
 
tracy2014 said:
No changes so far. After speaking with our JAG he recommended that we meet with the CO of the base to try and get him to stop that. We tried to set up an appointment and got a call back from this lovely XO (that is doing all of this) and he basically let us know if we had any questions to direct them to their base lawyer.
Click to expand...

Ever heard of the Military Whistleblowers Protection Act?

4. POLICY
It is DoD policy that:
4.1. Members of the Armed Forces shall be free to make a protected
communication to:
4.1.1. A Member of Congress.
4.1.2. An IG.
4.1.3. A member of a DoD audit, inspection, investigation, or law
enforcement organization; or
4.1.4. Any other person or organization (including any person or
organization in the chain of command) designated under Component regulations or
other established administrative procedures to receive such communications.
4.2. No person shall restrict a member of the Armed Forces from making a
protected communication.


If the XO is preventing the commander from hearing your complaint....without the commander's knowledge...he's violating Federal Law...
 
Amygal82 said:
What do we do now that there is no longer a requirement for physical
exams?

The requirement for routine physical exams (5-yr physical) to serve as clearance for
participation in PRT or physical conditioning is cancelled. Manual for Navy Medicine
Article 15-9 Periodic Examinations for Active Duty Personnel on page 15-10 states
"Routine periodic physical examinations are no longer required for active duty
personnel including flag officers. Please see OPNAVINST 6120.3 series for
guidance on the Preventive Health Assessment.” PHA now serves as the clearance
mechanism for participation in command physical conditioning programs, the fitness
enhancement program (FEP), and the PRT. All Sailors must complete the physical
activity risk factor questionnaire (PARFQ) prior to each PFA cycle. However, the
block at the bottom of the PARFQ should only be completed and signed by a
medical provider in cases where members do not have a current PHA or who
answer "yes" to any question on the PARFQ (unless they were previously cleared to
participate for that response and the condition has not worsened and no new risk
factors are present).


Did your husband answer yes to his PARFQ? It would help him if he did, that is all I meant.
Click to expand...

Right. The PHA is now the requirement.

My husband signed the questionairs as if nothing was wrong with him because he was in such bad mental shape he did not care if anything was wrong with him. He did not even care if he failed. He has four children at home and did not care. That is how bad of he was mentally. That is sooo opposite of my husbands character.
We knew something was wrong with him and sought medical attention for why he could not sleep at night. But the doctor nor I ever thought that he should not take the PRT. I didn't even know when he was taking them. He hid from me that he was failing anything (Once again, another trait that is soo opposite of who my husband is.)
I know. We are screwed. If his command cared about his mental state then this could have been halted but since they don't care he gets screwed.
 
Thank you for that. We are going to set up an appointment with the CO. We'll see if he will meet with us.
 
Was he sent to any command physical conditioning programs?

If he was and showing improvement, the Commander can sign a waiver to give him another chance to pass if he wanted to stay in. Our Command offered that to my co-worker, however they were going to take a rank as admin. punishment. But she would have been given the chance to try and stay in. SHe declined it because she felt she couldn't get her waist measurement down that much in time. But she was given severence.
 
No he was never sent to any conditioning program. I'm sure it is because our base feels that my husband is an Officer and at no time should anyone on base have to assist him in knowing what he should do. (I say that because I know my husbands mental state at the time prevented him from good judgement)
 
Amygal82 said:
A yearly Preventative Health Assessment. With a check up from the doctor every 3 years.

They might say it's just as much the member's responsibility to book it. They can say that. And do often. What were your husbands health problems?

Also, a PHA would not prevent you from PT testing because you don't always see a physician.

And they are covered because your husband has to sign a health clearance form before testing stating he has no health concerns or issues preventing him from taking the test that day.

My co-worker just got out for PT failure. She did receive a seperation severence, not the medical severence. You're husband would still get VA benefits also.
Click to expand...

gunmate1 said:
Tracy2014 what branch is your husband in? I am in the Navy and you are required to get a PHA or at least have a valid one before you take the PRT. But in the Navy you can be seperated with 1/2 severence pay if you are out of body fat standards, If you fail becuase of a portion then, now, you get no severence you are just adminstrativly seperated.
Click to expand...

89Falcon said:
Ever heard of the Military Whistleblowers Protection Act?

4. POLICY
It is DoD policy that:
4.1. Members of the Armed Forces shall be free to make a protected
communication to:
4.1.1. A Member of Congress.
4.1.2. An IG.
4.1.3. A member of a DoD audit, inspection, investigation, or law
enforcement organization; or
4.1.4. Any other person or organization (including any person or
organization in the chain of command) designated under Component regulations or
other established administrative procedures to receive such communications.
4.2. No person shall restrict a member of the Armed Forces from making a
protected communication.


If the XO is preventing the commander from hearing your complaint....without the commander's knowledge...he's violating Federal Law...
Click to expand...

This would apply just to my husband, right? Since he is the member of armed forces? I am the one requesting the meeting. So, if he does deny me then I will get my husband to ask for the meeting. I called today and left a message. We'll see if they return my calls.
 
Tracy,

Are you in the military? If you are, you can "blow the whistle" on things that are happening to others.....otherwise, I'd say, yes.....the protection applies to your husband, not you.

Also, the protection prevents someone from preventing you from going up the chain......if the ADM doesn't want to talk to you, and tells his XO to tell you to pound sand....he has that right.....but you can then go to the next level above him.

The question becomes "what do you have to lose"? Think long and hard about that. Is there a potential downside to going up the chain? Also, what's his Navy job?
 
89Falcon said:
Tracy,

Are you in the military? If you are, you can "blow the whistle" on things that are happening to others.....otherwise, I'd say, yes.....the protection applies to your husband, not you.

Also, the protection prevents someone from preventing you from going up the chain......if the ADM doesn't want to talk to you, and tells his XO to tell you to pound sand....he has that right.....but you can then go to the next level above him.

The question becomes "what do you have to lose"? Think long and hard about that. Is there a potential downside to going up the chain? Also, what's his Navy job?
Click to expand...


Nope I'm just the spouse. So it would need to be my husband.

I finally got a call bck from our JAG and he said this XO paid him a visit and now my legal assistance feels that there isn't much more we can do!!! Someone tell me that doesn't sound like a snake!

We won't lose anything if we go up the command. I mean, what more is there to lose. My husband is officially out in 2 weeks with NO retirement and can't even go reserve to try and fulfill some retirement.

Oh, and he was a Navy Chaplain. He took his cross off last spring when they stuck him in a printer room to review the safety manual.
 
Amygal82 said:
What part of the PT test did he fail?
Click to expand...


He failed both BCA and PRT the first and second time, He failed just the PRT the last time.

I also noticed how his run went from a 15:47 to 17:49, I think THAT should of made someone realize this guy has some health issues. One thing that had started happening and we didn't know it, was his iron level had taken a dramatic drop. By the time they found it (because WE took my husband to medical) they said his iron level was dangerously low.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top