Long story... looking for some sort of instruction

[SteviestZ]

APR2015 - torn left ACL and had reconstruction done by civilian ortho clinic due to location (I'm assuming since I was just a yes man early in this process) fast forward 6 months to find out that I was never placed on LIMDU because of people not doing their job. Was finally placed on LIMDU after detailers discovered my status was not matching what I was telling them when I started asking questions regarding possible pcs scenarios. Half my knee remained numb and limited movement and function (couldn't take a knee or bend it all the way with out feeling like I was crunching rocks in the joint space).

MAR2016 - stood up too quick (watching basketball......) and felt a pop that lodged something into my quad which ended up needing another surgery to remove a big calcium deposit that had decided to attach to my new ACL. Still numb and cannot do the same functions as before with some weird soreness around my medial meniscus area that I can't seem to replicate with any movements more so at the end of the day after some walking. Ended up on a 2nd LIMDU.

OCT2016 - After multiple drop offs and missing links in the handling of my ridiculous timeline here as well as being seen for my RIGHT knee for some wear and tear pain that had finally caught up to me . Ortho felt wasn't surgically repairable with chondromalacia (sp?) and a lot of beat up soft tissue being the problem ...Physical therapy felt like I may benefit from getting back into my normal routine of sports and gym. This was decided after a long period of what seemed like little to no progress with that same pain. My hopes were that getting back into the swing of my normal movements that were natural to me would break off whatever was holding me back. So my physical therapist would go out of her way to actually make sure things were looking solid and that this was doing some good for me. We didn't know at the time but that was what would eventually clear me of wrong doing with my LIMDU orders.

I was out on the field during intramural flag football and caught my first pass....... and ...... black out for a split second after what I would later learn was a tackle directly aimed at my RIGHT knee (non ACL recon knee). Turns out after a month long wait for an MRI and a 2 week long wait of pending MRI results that I only got because of my digging around in our clinic resources, I had (according the civilian hospital radiologist) two fractures, both meniscus torn, and ACl partial to full thickness tear.

Of course the first thing my leadership did was try to get me sent up for disobeying my LIMDU orders (which I was cleared of with physical therapy vouching for me thank god). Then after multiple attempts by the NAVAL hospital (not the branch clinic which is my actual command) to deny me a 3rd LIMDU saying that I was disobeying orders stated in my LIMDU paperwork. Which I was finally acquitted of with something short of a miracle and physical therapy putting in some hard work. Gotten to the point where I record every appt. that I have after being told one thing and given another too many times.

All boiling down to what NAVAL Hospital has downgraded my diagnosis to being just a POSSIBLE ACL tear and a minor medial meniscal tear. I can't stress enough that I am not the type to think the world is against me in any situation. But with how my treatment has progressed with multiple negligent scenarios and constant finger pointing which I have grown incredibly sick of, I am in no way shape or form trusting the hospital to do my surgery which they are saying I am OBLIGATED to do. They place reasoning on my LIMDU / MEB status. I of course am hoping I can see my prior civilian Ortho Clinic knowing there is no agenda going against me there.

Is there an actual instruction on whether or not I am allowed to see a civilian practice that I have seen before WHILE ON 3rd LIMDU/ MEB? I know this was much to read but this isn't even half the story of bull that I have had to deal with. Not even close. Also what would this qualify as with my medical separation or medical retirement happening after this surgery happens?

 

[Camp P Marine]

I wanted a civ 2nd opinion and I had to write a Congressman. I kept getting the "run around," even with a case manager. It was eventually approved, but that's all it was good for was one outside visit. Give it a shot, but ongoing outside care is not likely.
Getting an outside surgery approved via Tricare is unlikely.

10 & 20% ratings are common for the knee. I believe 30% means you knee won't bend, most people aren't there.
Best advice if the MEB goes forward would be trying to have Bilateral knees as the referred conditions.
If only one knee is unfitting, a medical separation is very likely.
20% or less= med sep, with sev pay.
30% or more= med ret, TDRL or PDRL.


If you refuse the surgery this could be a slippery slope because of SECNAVINST 1850.4E:

"3413 Unreasonable Refusal Of Medical, Dental, Or Surgical Treatment a. If a member unreasonably refuses to submit to medical, dental, or surgical treatment, any Unfitting disability that proximately results from such refusal is incurred as a result of the member's willful neglect. However, unreasonable refusal under this section only may equate to willful neglect when the member most likely would be Fit had he or she submitted to or complied (see paragraph 3802(c) failure to comply with prescribed treatment) with the treatment regimen. Additionally, a member who refuses medical treatment on a bona fide religious basis is eligible for disability benefits; refusal shall not be considered willful neglect"

http://www.secnav.navy.mil/mra/CORB/Documents/SECNAV INST 1850_4e.pdf

What is or is not reasonable treatment of course is a gray zone. See a disability lawyer for counsel. There should be on at the LIMDU/IDES office.

 

[SteviestZ]

Roger, and thank you for pulling that instruction. If there is one thing I want it is an ACTUAL instruction and not "they said" or "we don't usually" type of answers.

With your situation I'm guessing you were forced to get treated at an MTF?

 

[Camp P Marine]

By forced you mean have the military treat me or Tricare not pay for outside treatment? Yes.

Overall, I think the MTF did a good job, but treatment at the best hospital the Navy has on the west coast, NMCSD.

Although I've met a few bad apples within MTF, most were pretty good.

The below provider got pretty pissed when I read from the SECNAVINST 1850.4E, when she thought an admin sep was the best move. Knowing regs is very important dealing with ignorant/malicious providers/leaders within the military.

The case was unrelated to me, just continuous bad behavior apparently.

The bad apple can be read about online: http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=85644

"At a Special Court-Martial in San Diego, California, LT. ___ ___ , MSC, USN pleaded guilty to false official statement and conduct unbecoming an officer. On Jan. 27, 2015, the military judge sentenced her to a reprimand and a fine of $3,000."