Just received NARSUM need help

JonnyROcket

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
I just recieved my NARSUM and they are boarding me for my back with the two diagnosis of: Thoracolumber strain & Lumbar intervertebral disc disease.

My foward flextiation is 30
Pain begins at 30
Extension ends at 10
painful extension at 10
Lateral Right Flexion 15
Lateral Right pain at 15
Lateral left flexion at 15
Lateral left pain at 15
Right lateral rotation 10
Right lateral pain 10
Left lateral rotation 10
Left lateral pain 10

Post test extension 10


I know my ratings will come back low but my question is : Is this enough to be found unfit ?
 
What is your MOS? What did your commander's statement say? How many YOS? Each case has different variables. We probably need a bit more information before hazarding even a guess. Best of luck.
 
Im an intel analyst I only have 2 years of service ( Pathetic i know but i didnt intend on getting injured) my commander statment stated that i have trouble performing satisfactory in my duties due to my condition. Also if it says "Health or Well being would be compromised if service member were to remain in military service" does that mean anything ?
 
I just recieved my NARSUM and they are boarding me for my back with the two diagnosis of: Thoracolumber strain & Lumbar intervertebral disc disease.

My foward flextiation is 30
Pain begins at 30
Extension ends at 10
painful extension at 10
Lateral Right Flexion 15
Lateral Right pain at 15
Lateral left flexion at 15
Lateral left pain at 15
Right lateral rotation 10
Right lateral pain 10
Left lateral rotation 10
Left lateral pain 10

Post test extension 10


I know my ratings will come back low but my question is : Is this enough to be found unfit ?

Yes I would think you will come back unfit. The 30 degrees of flexion will be rated at 40% by the VA
 
Also I would like to know if i took it to legal would they be able to tell me ?
 
Also I would like to know if i took it to legal would they be able to tell me ?

Yes you should have legal look it over. What are you looking to be told? you said you had DDD of your lower back, and gave your ROM numbers. Based on what you said, 40% is what the VASRD rating is. Legal should look it over and make sure all your conditions are covered on your NARSUM. Nobody can tell you what the PEB is going to do as far as fitness.

Based on your commanders statement, and how the system trends these days, I would assume a finding of being unfit is going to come. Again, take it to legal and have them look at it. Even if you don't appeal or change anything, you should always have them look at your MEB decision, and PEB decision. It is your legal right, and makes very good sense to USE ALL YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS!

Joe
 
Yes you should have legal look it over. What are you looking to be told? you said you had DDD of your lower back, and gave your ROM numbers. Based on what you said, 40% is what the VASRD rating is. Legal should look it over and make sure all your conditions are covered on your NARSUM. Nobody can tell you what the PEB is going to do as far as fitness.

Based on your commanders statement, and how the system trends these days, I would assume a finding of being unfit is going to come. Again, take it to legal and have them look at it. Even if you don't appeal or change anything, you should always have them look at your MEB decision, and PEB decision. It is your legal right, and makes very good sense to USE ALL YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS!

Joe

I'm just fearing that i wont be found unfit because my commanders statement wasnt too explanatory actually my NCO filled it out and had my commander sign it. Also with the fear of being found fit is that they will make me take a pt test and i cant do the walk part because my back is pretty messed up
 
Chances are at the 40% rating mark you will be found unfit, now the problem comes in with your short length of service. is there a traumatic event from basic on that accounts directly for your back problems? is there any note on your entry exam concerning your back? even mild scoliosis? if there is an event that toes into it, it will be near impossible for them to find EPTS. everything you stated from your commanders letter etc. points to unfitting.
 
Chances are at the 40% rating mark you will be found unfit, now the problem comes in with your short length of service. is there a traumatic event from basic on that accounts directly for your back problems? is there any note on your entry exam concerning your back? even mild scoliosis? if there is an event that toes into it, it will be near impossible for them to find EPTS. everything you stated from your commanders letter etc. points to unfitting.

No, my problem came at AIT which was noted on my findings and they said the injury occured during service and wasnt existing prior to service
 
No, my problem came at AIT which was noted on my findings and they said the injury occured during service and wasnt existing prior to service
good, hopefully they do not give you the run around.
 
No, my problem came at AIT which was noted on my findings and they said the injury occured during service and wasnt existing prior to service

I think you are over thinking it to be honest with you. If you are stressing this much right now, this process is going to eat you up. You have a strong case for unfitness. If you were found fit, you would be given a perm profile for the items that you got sent to the board for. If the PEB chooses fit, they are saying that they see you have an issue, but not enough to prevent you from doing the job of a soldier. My guess is the upper part of your profile has at least a couple of "no" answers for some of the basic soldier tasks. If you can't do those, they are not going to find you fit.

Soldier tasks would be wear happy gear for 12 hours, do a 3-5 second rush, ruck march, carry an assigned weapon, etc, etc. The Army is not going to waiver you on those since they are deployment tasks. Being as you have a short career, they will not let you stay. If you had a lot of years, and some rank, they may find a way, but more often they do not.

Stop worrying about this, and start planning for life after the Army.
 
dont expect much.,. I have a soldier had a back surgery and got 10%.. You might have a 20% to a 30%..things are hard here in the army to get high ratings..they do not want to give you much and everybody is appealing..i am leaving with a 20% and they did not include as unfit my spondylosis from my back..which is service connected,. because they did not wanted to treat it and have no MRI I just got an xray that says i have that back condition, .,and if is a degenerative condition they might not rate you much..and they wont do it..
 
dont expect much.,. I have a soldier had a back surgery and got 10%.. You might have a 20% to a 30%..things are hard here in the army to get high ratings..they do not want to give you much and everybody is appealing..i am leaving with a 20% and they did not include as unfit my spondylosis from my back..which is service connected,. because they did not wanted to treat it and have no MRI I just got an xray that says i have that back condition, .,and if is a degenerative condition they might not rate you much..and they wont do it..
Not to be a jerk but kind of a crappy post. It does not if you have surgery but its the ROM. I have actually seen some good numbers come out lately. As well as x- rays show a majority of what is wrong with most people. More expensive imaging only shows soft tissue, tendons and ligaments. Yours would have been seen on an x-ray. If you or anyone does not like their findings, NARSUM etc. you can challenge it.
 
dont expect much.,. I have a soldier had a back surgery and got 10%.. You might have a 20% to a 30%..things are hard here in the army to get high ratings..they do not want to give you much and everybody is appealing..i am leaving with a 20% and they did not include as unfit my spondylosis from my back..which is service connected,. because they did not wanted to treat it and have no MRI I just got an xray that says i have that back condition, .,and if is a degenerative condition they might not rate you much..and they wont do it..

Back conditions are based on Range of Motion (ROM) With his stated ROM number, it rates at 40%. The Army has nothing to do with rating the condition. That is the VAs job by law/

In your case, spondylosis is rated as part of DDD, and falls in with your ROM numbers. It does not get a rating by itself. I am guessing your ROM was 31-60 degrees, since that is what a 20% rating is by the VASRD. If your ROM numbers are wrong, appeal and ask for a new VA C&P for the examination of your back. Going into and understanding the VASRD is in your best interest, as that will help you understand why you were rated at the percentage you were given.

Joe
 
Not to be a jerk but kind of a crappy post. It does not if you have surgery but its the ROM. I have actually seen some good numbers come out lately. As well as x- rays show a majority of what is wrong with most people. More expensive imaging only shows soft tissue, tendons and ligaments. Yours would have been seen on an x-ray. If you or anyone does not like their findings, NARSUM etc. you can challenge it.
Well, some how the VA doctor did my range of motion, thta was before the Xray, and I do not know how he put I was exellent on everything when I coul not even bent when I did the ROM!!
 
Well, some how the VA doctor did my range of motion, thta was before the Xray, and I do not know how he put I was exellent on everything when I coul not even bent when I did the ROM!!

Appeal the decision. As medic said, the X-ray will not change the rating, as it is based on ROM. You could be missing a couple of discs, and hardware all through your back that shows up on an X-ray, MRI, and any other type of imaging, but would still be rated based on ROM.

Joe
 
Back conditions are based on Range of Motion (ROM) With his stated ROM number, it rates at 40%. The Army has nothing to do with rating the condition. That is the VAs job by law/

In your case, spondylosis is rated as part of DDD, and falls in with your ROM numbers. It does not get a rating by itself. I am guessing your ROM was 31-60 degrees, since that is what a 20% rating is by the VASRD. If your ROM numbers are wrong, appeal and ask for a new VA C&P for the examination of your back. Going into and understanding the VASRD is in your best interest, as that will help you understand why you were rated at the percentage you were given.

Joe
Thanks JOE!
I had already gave up. I am leaving with the army 20% and VA 50% I saw the Lawyer today. She said I can appeal it but because I just got the xray there is not enough evidence and this doctors would put me first for some Physical therapy first , then a bunch of pills and so on, that will give them a bridge for them not to get that MRI. It would take like six months and i would get my ratings back, maybe lower and so on.. and i have a friend doctor that works with tricare in PR, and told me that they would not put as unfit , it is a degenerative condition,.
 
Back conditions are based on Range of Motion (ROM) With his stated ROM number, it rates at 40%. The Army has nothing to do with rating the condition. That is the VAs job by law/

In your case, spondylosis is rated as part of DDD, and falls in with your ROM numbers. It does not get a rating by itself. I am guessing your ROM was 31-60 degrees, since that is what a 20% rating is by the VASRD. If your ROM numbers are wrong, appeal and ask for a new VA C&P for the examination of your back. Going into and understanding the VASRD is in your best interest, as that will help you understand why you were rated at the percentage you were given.

Joe
JOE i have been looking and researching and searching, talking to off post doctors etc. because the xrays were done after I submitted the papers to the MEB..I already address the back pain. and here in this base they are just kicking everybody out. 99% of the people that got their ratings back are appealing, little they now that this is what is going to happen from now on, base on my findings, and this starting now 2014. If your condition is degenerative , like what I have , and arthritis or something degenerative , they would not find it as unfit. I hurt my back on duty, but what I have is unfit by the army standrds to join, but for medical reason as unfit service conected , they would not rated,. I saw a case today./ A soldier has a very bad arthritis case on all his joints he got 0% from the army and VA 70%. It means I have to fight it with VA.
 
I think you are over thinking it to be honest with you. If you are stressing this much right now, this process is going to eat you up. You have a strong case for unfitness. If you were found fit, you would be given a perm profile for the items that you got sent to the board for. If the PEB chooses fit, they are saying that they see you have an issue, but not enough to prevent you from doing the job of a soldier. My guess is the upper part of your profile has at least a couple of "no" answers for some of the basic soldier tasks. If you can't do those, they are not going to find you fit.

Soldier tasks would be wear happy gear for 12 hours, do a 3-5 second rush, ruck march, carry an assigned weapon, etc, etc. The Army is not going to waiver you on those since they are deployment tasks. Being as you have a short career, they will not let you stay. If you had a lot of years, and some rank, they may find a way, but more often they do not.

Stop worrying about this, and start planning for life after the Army.


Totally forgot to reply i was found unfit and my paperwork is in Seattle awaiting ratings i know this is where a majority of the hold up is im on day 80 of the Va ratings i know im due for another 80 hopefully it will come back sooner but i doubt it.
 
JOE i have been looking and researching and searching, talking to off post doctors etc. because the xrays were done after I submitted the papers to the MEB..I already address the back pain. and here in this base they are just kicking everybody out. 99% of the people that got their ratings back are appealing, little they now that this is what is going to happen from now on, base on my findings, and this starting now 2014. If your condition is degenerative , like what I have , and arthritis or something degenerative , they would not find it as unfit. I hurt my back on duty, but what I have is unfit by the army standrds to join, but for medical reason as unfit service conected , they would not rated,. I saw a case today./ A soldier has a very bad arthritis case on all his joints he got 0% from the army and VA 70%. It means I have to fight it with VA.

Just a couple points to make. I don't know your case personally, or your base, but hope you understand that it is not your post that assigns the ratings. The PEB does. There are three of them for the Army. Crystal City, Ft Lewis, and Ft Sam Houston. The MEB at your post writes the NARSUM, and then gives an opinion as to whether the condition "meets" or "fails" retention standards. After the SM signs the NARSUM, it goes to one of those three boards for adjudication.

If there is a problem at your post, I would suspect it is in the way the MEB doctors are writing the NARSUM. This points out why it is so crucial to read the NARSUM, and get mistakes corrected. If the impact of your injury is not clearly stated, and the PEB does not see an impact to being able to parfom your duty, the PEB isn't going to find a person unfit for a condition.

Take your example of arthritus. There needs to be documentation that this condition is the cause for your P3 profiled conditions. If you have a profile for bad knees, and bad shoulders, the conditions need to be linked back to arthritus or there is a good chance that the SM would get an Army rating of 10% for shoulders, and 10% for kness. This is where the SM needs to request an IMR, and show that they were diagnosed with arthritus, and the specialist linked the other issues to it.

A well written commanders statement also plays a key part. I am not saying there are not problems with the system. I know there are, because I went through it. I also believe very strongly that the soldiers need to share the blame as well. What I often see is a soldier who is in a huge rush to get out. They don't take their alloted time to look over their NARSUM, or 199, and don't want to appeal because it adds time. A soldier is always their number one advocate, and if they don't get very involved in the process, they get run over.

Every system works this way. A promotion board; the soldier has to get all their paperwork for points together, otherwise they have nothing. Finance; if a soldier is missing a special pay, it takes lots of work and frustration, but they have to be involved. It goes on and on. A system only works for you if you vest yourself into it. If not, then you end up bitter, and don't get what you deserve.

Joe
 
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