JBER case timeline

Weapons loader

Weapons loader

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
So far pretty smooth, I was told early this year that I was going to be able to retire without an MEB by my PCM, however my case was sent to the DAWG and her hands were tied. I have had some difficulty with the PEBLO and VA rep when it comes to listing conditions. I wanted my sciatica and neuropathy listed as unfitting
AFI 48-123 lists them as unfitting but they were left off of my NARSUM and I had to list them as additional. I had an appointment with my PCM yesterday to discuss it, he said he would add them, but when he tried the PEBLO said they couldn't be added until after my C&P's are completed. This doesn't sound right to me. I also wanted boarderline glaucoma added as additional condition, but the VA said that boarderline doesn't qualify, my concern is that years down the line when it ends up as full blown glaucoma it won't be covered, and I would like the optical coverage for when it does happen. Other than that it's been smooth sailing.

2009-two back surgeries, microdiscectomy/laminectomy
2012-two back surgeries, mirco redo and new microdiscectomy/laminectomy
March 2013-microdiscectomy, synovial cyst removal/laminectomy
July 2013-notified that my case was going to the DAWG due to profile for 2 years
August 2013-notified I would be referred for MES
September 2013-commanders letter completed, found out full MEB required
October 2013-Initial appointment with PEBLO and VA
October 28th 2013-audiology C&P
November 13th 2013-Mental Health C&P
November 15th 2013-Physical C&P

Unfitting conditions:
low back pain
neck pain
bilateral arthritis knees

Additional conditions:
hypertension
sleep apnea (I use a CPAP)
hearing loss
tinnitus
left wrist pain(arthritis)
left hip pain
right shoulder pain
right heel pain
insomnia(been taking Ambien for years)
bilateral leg pain
bilateral arm pain
left ring finger fracture

I have several areas of arthritis but it was only listed as pain for the condition, the VA/PEBLO told me this is how it's listed since they don't list diagnosis's.

-Richard
 
Weapons loader said:
So far pretty smooth, I was told early this year that I was going to be able to retire without an MEB by my PCM, however my case was sent to the DAWG and her hands were tied. I have had some difficulty with the PEBLO and VA rep when it comes to listing conditions. I wanted my sciatica and neuropathy listed as unfitting
AFI 48-123 lists them as unfitting but they were left off of my NARSUM and I had to list them as additional. I had an appointment with my PCM yesterday to discuss it, he said he would add them, but when he tried the PEBLO said they couldn't be added until after my C&P's are completed. This doesn't sound right to me. I also wanted boarderline glaucoma added as additional condition, but the VA said that boarderline doesn't qualify, my concern is that years down the line when it ends up as full blown glaucoma it won't be covered, and I would like the optical coverage for when it does happen. Other than that it's been smooth sailing.
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Are you NG? If so you are on the Legacy system :mad: and some of the "older" guys ;) on this site should be able to help you, my only experience is from the IDES.

Being if you aren't NG the following pertains to you:
How can a NARSUM be complete if the C&P exams aren't done yet??? A NARSUM is built off of military medical records along with the C&P exam findings.
I suggest getting ahold of the PEBLOs boss, contact an Ombudsman (if you have one), get ahold of patient advocacy, and report the PEBLO on the ICE system.


The glaucoma is a grey area since it is boarder-line, the VA see's it black and white, you have it or you don't. Get it added, even though the VA will not rate it now, it will be recorded on your VA records. So later down the road you can get it rechecked and once it starts going down hill, you get a rating and you get treated. I know I made it sound simple and goes really fast, but it would take a few years and is a little bit of a process.:(
 
Grizz,

Maybe my nomenclature, but I thought the original form that my PCM filled out was my NARSUM, the paperwork with my unfitting conditions, and that after my C&P's then it's finalized? Also I ended up contacting a lawyer down at Randolph AFB, they have them available for AF that are in the MEB process. She said I would have the option to add anything I wanted as additional conditions when I show up for my C&P, I also met with my PCM and he said he would add my sciatica as unfitting once my C&P is done. The PEBLO told him that he couldn't add anything else at this time and that I'd have to wait. Either way I have copies of all correspondence with the PEBLO, my PCM and the VA.

Wild Blue,

Are you AF, what do you do? How long has it taken you so far? On ebenefits it says that my package is due to be submitted no later than 6 December, but my PEBLO says that they have 35 days after my C&P to forward it. My understanding was that they are held to the metrics pretty closely. Then she said ratings are coming back between 90-120 days since we go through Providence.

-Shawn
 
Also real quick the PEBLO did verify for me that I will not be getting a copy of my unfit letter which is BS because I can't file SSDI or apply for vocational rehab without it, I have to wait the additional 4 months which really sucks. I guess I could apply for SSDI but without the letter saying I'm unfit I don't have much faith in getting approved.
 
First, nothing is unfitting until a PEB says it is unfitting. Your MEB is required to include all medical conditions (see DoDI 1332.38 E3.P1.2.3.) and the PEB is required consider all medical conditions and their impact on your fitness, both collectively and collectively. See the attached court case brought forth by Jason Perry, the owner pebforum. Below is a key passage from the court ruling. If they don't include all medical issues in your MEB, request an Impartial Medical Review and demand they do. Specifically point out the requirements I have highlighted in this post.

Mike

Section 1216a provides that disability ratings “shall take into account all medical conditions, whether individually or collectively, that render the member unfit to perform the duties of the member’s office, grade, rank, or rating.” 10 U.S.C.A. § 1216a(b) (2012) (emphasis added). Plaintiff argues that although the ABCMR concluded that his foot conditions alone did not render him unfit for duty, it failed to consider whether his foot conditions contributed to rendering him unfit for duty. Pl. Supp. at 6; Pl. Reply at 10. The Government does not counter this argument; in fact, it replaces the words “whether individually or collectively” with an ellipsis when it quotes from section 1216a(b). Gov’t Supp. at 8-9 (“[T]he statute provides that, in making rating determinations, the military will ‘take into account all medical conditions . . . that render the member unfit to perform the duties of the member’s office, grade, rank, or rating.’”).
 

Attachments

I appreciate the response, and when I file my IMR will push the issue. Also I was under the impression that those that were in the Army were getting a letter stating that they were unfit prior to receiving their percentages. I'm assuming I was incorrect?
 
Private message sent.

As for the SSDI, won't you need more than just a statement of being unfit? You'll have to show total debilitation and inability to work, so won't you need the VA proposed ratings as a minimum? Since those are only proposed, though, I'm wondering if you might need the actuals.
 
I read in other posts that people were applying while still on active duty after receiving a letter stating they were unfit, I can wait but wanted to apply as soon as possible, I also read that once you got the letter you could apply for vocational rehab. The plan was to talk to a rehab counselor and if they thought I could retrain and become employable I would go that route, but if not I would go the route of SSDI. But being AF we can't apply for any program due to not receiving a letter. I was told some good news by my PEBLO, she said I could use all of my leave as terminal which will be 100+ days when it's all said and done, however I though I read in another post that you could only use 60 days of terminal with an additional 30 from the commander(overseas) and would have to sell back the remainder. There's just so much information and half of it seems to either be incorrect or contrary to what you have been told by others. I have my mental health C&P Wednesday and my physical on Friday, I'll post an update then.

-Shawn
 
Weapons loader said:
Grizz,

Maybe my nomenclature, but I thought the original form that my PCM filled out was my NARSUM, the paperwork with my unfitting conditions, and that after my C&P's then it's finalized? Also I ended up contacting a lawyer down at Randolph AFB, they have them available for AF that are in the MEB process. She said I would have the option to add anything I wanted as additional conditions when I show up for my C&P, I also met with my PCM and he said he would add my sciatica as unfitting once my C&P is done. The PEBLO told him that he couldn't add anything else at this time and that I'd have to wait. Either way I have copies of all correspondence with the PEBLO, my PCM and the VA.

-Shawn
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No that was NOT a NARSUM, that was a medical history form for the PEBLO to copy and give to your MSC, the MSC will verify the items listed in the form off of your medical records. The MSC is the one that initiates the C&P exams (you are at this stage.) Once your assigned MEB doc (PCM) receives all of the notes from the VA exams, they then write up the Narrative Summary (NARSUM) of all of the conditions you are claiming. You get the chance to review it along with a legal advisor and then you can approve or request an IMR. The PEB will then review the NARSUM and documentation to either find a claimed condition to be worthy of fit or unfit. The MEB ONLY makes a recommendation for an unfit decision for the claim/s that you were referred to the MEB for ONLY, the PEB can override a MEB recommendation based on evidence that is presented with the packet.

Weapons loader said:
I appreciate the response, and when I file my IMR will push the issue. Also I was under the impression that those that were in the Army were getting a letter stating that they were unfit prior to receiving their percentages. I'm assuming I was incorrect?
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Not always will a PEBLO give an unfit memo once the PEB makes the decision, but you can get your CoC to forcefully ask for it, being AF... That is highly doubtful.
Weapons loader said:
I read in other posts that people were applying while still on active duty after receiving a letter stating they were unfit, I can wait but wanted to apply as soon as possible, I also read that once you got the letter you could apply for vocational rehab. The plan was to talk to a rehab counselor and if they thought I could retrain and become employable I would go that route, but if not I would go the route of SSDI.
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Not entirely true, you can apply as soon as you sign your NARSUM. You will have a copy of it for yourself and you can attempt to apply for SSDI off of that. Some go through pretty easy, others not so easy.
I applied for Voc Rehab when I had my NARSUM in hand and was approved for the job placement testing and other things. When I could prove the VA had my packet, they approved me right there for Voc. Rehab.
 
Also, one note... AF PEBLOs are what I like to call 500 shades of grey, nothing but secrecy, it is a one way street, they don't communicate for a shart...
 
grizz13 said:
Not always will a PEBLO give an unfit memo once the PEB makes the decision, but you can get your CoC to forcefully ask for it, being AF... That is highly doubtful.
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I will tell you that one good thing about being a MSgt with 18 years TIS is that I have an extremely good report with my first sergeant and commander, I hate it for the younger guys because it shouldn't be this way but it is. I think there are things that I can get done that a younger guy could not or would not know how to do it. I appreciate everyones input and will add updates as they occur and hopefully others will learn something from my process.
 
I'm also at JBER, mine has taken forever! i started back in April and they just sent my package out. Whats horrible is they didn't even have my inpatient record, or any records from my surgerys in there. i had to go get them all myself! My VA reps left out so much info from our appts, he just wouldn't listen to me. then the peblo said it would take 90 days for the unfit/fit decision and not to ask before the 90 days... maybe i've been bugging them too much.
 
Also my NARSMs were done before my va appts, they said i couldn't even make my VA appointments until they recvd my Narsms.
 
I had to run around getting records sent also, but I've had 5 off base surgeries and it wasn't a surprise to me. Don't worry about how often you call the PEBLO, if you have a reason to call then call.
 
I had my mental health C&P today for sleep issues, I was really surprised at how brief it was, he went over a history with me and then specifics about my sleep issues. He never really went too in depth. The entire appointment took 40 minutes. After my hearing test I was given the findings by the tech but the doctor this time didn't really say anything at the end except "that's all I needed". I get around 4 hours of sleep a night, difficulty with sleep onset, I wake up 2-3 times a night and have daytime sleepiness. This has been ongoing daily for 2-3 years. I'm surprised that he went down the path of depression/anxiety, oh well I guess I'll get the results in a couple of weeks when I sign my NARSUM. I have my 3rd and final appointment on Friday for my physical C&P and will post my experiences with that when I'm finished with it.
 
My mental health doc ended up having to add to mine, when u get it back if u don't agree with it tell your doc they can add it in the narsm. The va docs here are horrible! Both of my appts went bad, they ignored every complaint I had. They didn't even talk to me about the main reason for my med board. I ended up writing a letter of exception for my package. I really hope they understand and really read my surgery notes. Cause if not I'm screwed.
 
whitwhit said:
I'm also at JBER, mine has taken forever! i started back in April and they just sent my package out. Whats horrible is they didn't even have my inpatient record, or any records from my surgerys in there. i had to go get them all myself! My VA reps left out so much info from our appts, he just wouldn't listen to me. then the peblo said it would take 90 days for the unfit/fit decision and not to ask before the 90 days... maybe i've been bugging them too much.
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I am up at Wainwright, and I got my unit back in around 30 days, so it should go pretty quickly. My VA doc did a pretty good job according to my legal review and the doc was really precise in what was needed for my limitations to range of motion. The VA ratings are what is going to take a while, I am almost at 90 days and still no end in sight. Sorry your process has taken so much longer, I started around the same time you did.
 
Weapons loader said:
I read in other posts that people were applying while still on active duty after receiving a letter stating they were unfit, I can wait but wanted to apply as soon as possible, I also read that once you got the letter you could apply for vocational rehab. The plan was to talk to a rehab counselor and if they thought I could retrain and become employable I would go that route, but if not I would go the route of SSDI. But being AF we can't apply for any program due to not receiving a letter. I was told some good news by my PEBLO, she said I could use all of my leave as terminal which will be 100+ days when it's all said and done, however I though I read in another post that you could only use 60 days of terminal with an additional 30 from the commander(overseas) and would have to sell back the remainder. There's just so much information and half of it seems to either be incorrect or contrary to what you have been told by others. I have my mental health C&P Wednesday and my physical on Friday, I'll post an update then.

-Shawn
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One of my Soldiers just got his VA ratings back, and they are only letting him take 32 days of terminal leave because he has to be out of the Army by a specific date. I asked how the process is determined, and I was simply told it depends. So I do not know if we can bank on taking a certain number of leave days.
 
Weapons loader said:
I had my mental health C&P today for sleep issues, I was really surprised at how brief it was, he went over a history with me and then specifics about my sleep issues. He never really went too in depth. The entire appointment took 40 minutes. After my hearing test I was given the findings by the tech but the doctor this time didn't really say anything at the end except "that's all I needed". I get around 4 hours of sleep a night, difficulty with sleep onset, I wake up 2-3 times a night and have daytime sleepiness. This has been ongoing daily for 2-3 years. I'm surprised that he went down the path of depression/anxiety, oh well I guess I'll get the results in a couple of weeks when I sign my NARSUM. I have my 3rd and final appointment on Friday for my physical C&P and will post my experiences with that when I'm finished with it.
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Don't stress too much about it, mine went much faster that yours and they rated me correctly. They are pretty much closed mouth after their exams, if you feel like you need to review their notes you can request copies any time you want. Anxeity and depression have huge effects on sleep, so they want to cover all basic info to correctly diagnose your sleep issues as a MH linked issue instead of a physical pain issue.
 
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