Is MEB next?

T

tobefit

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
I made another post but got a lot more information. Basically I have had back pain (bulging disc), sciatic nerve pain, neck pain and migraines from prior service on deployment but I am now in the ANG. Since I made the switch from another branch I had to go to tech school, where I am at now. I got a call from the officer that is the head of medical at my unit who requested I GO HOME NOW and that they are doing the paperwork to get me a profile ASAP. So, he said my pain isn't getting better and neither is my body with treatment of chrio, PT, medicine, lidocaine patches etc and that I am basically a liability being a tech school and doesn't want me to get hurt further, so I am awaiting to go home in the coming days. I was told when I get home I have to go to medical immediately to "fill out paperwork and sign stuff" - whatever this means. I am 80% through the VA already and am on a pain killer medication for my back, sciatica and neck. Is MEB next up?

* Once I get home and see medical I will also be getting kicked off of active orders, but I am unsure what may be next when I get home and report to medical. Thanks all
 
Since you are being sent home from tech school, I would say your chances of staying in are minimal. That is a huge muscle movement for the Guard.

What you can expect next is to sign your AF469 profile. What will be interesting to see if how they mark that profile. If they mark it as code 31 (can be fixed with 365 days), you have a longer journey in front of you of lots of doctor appointments. If they mark it as code 37 (greater than 365 days to be fixed) then your medical squadron can begin separation. What will also be time consuming is the LOD. Since your LOD will involve a career ending issue, it will have to be adjudicated by NGB/D2DNP (medical standards). They are notorious for looking at a LOD and starting from the point of NILOD and only making it ILOD if they absolutely are forced it.

You can still be separated with a NILOD and go through an MEB / IDES, but it will be for administrative discharge only. We can talk specifics of retirement options once you get to that point.
 
Guardguy11 said:
Since you are being sent home from tech school, I would say your chances of staying in are minimal. That is a huge muscle movement for the Guard.

What you can expect next is to sign your AF469 profile. What will be interesting to see if how they mark that profile. If they mark it as code 31 (can be fixed with 365 days), you have a longer journey in front of you of lots of doctor appointments. If they mark it as code 37 (greater than 365 days to be fixed) then your medical squadron can begin separation. What will also be time consuming is the LOD. Since your LOD will involve a career ending issue, it will have to be adjudicated by NGB/D2DNP (medical standards). They are notorious for looking at a LOD and starting from the point of NILOD and only making it ILOD if they absolutely are forced it.

You can still be separated with a NILOD and go through an MEB / IDES, but it will be for administrative discharge only. We can talk specifics of retirement options once you get to that point.
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Whoa, that is quite the boat load of insight, I appreciate it. When I go home off of orders this weekend ill get a DD214 which will be an honorable I am guessing, then I will be in the guard (drilling). Once I submit my initial DD214 to the VA to start my pay back up, while the process goes on, if they do admin sep me will I have to provide that DD214 eventually also? - Also if I get a admin discharge can I still collect my VA benefits?
 
So... you have some choices in front of you. Since you were on orders when this condition worsened to the point of needing to be sent home, you are eligible for MEDCON. It is a program that will keep you on orders and pay you your military salary while keeping you on TriCare. It is optional and you don't have to take these orders, but they are afforded to you once you apply BUT no one, and I mean no one will tell you about this crap. You have to do the leg work yourself. the AFI for LODs is 36-2910 and it also discusses MEDCON and what it means.

If you make more at your civilian gig, it probably wont work, but if you want the orders, it will be nice. Another benefit... if you happen to make it to an MEB by a service connected issues that was aggrevated by military orders, you can be medically retired "on active duty", meaning you would get a pension and access to tricare. Don't get your hopes up as it is really difficult to pull off, but as I see it right now, this is a potential option IF you get on the ball with MEDCON.
 
Guardguy11 said:
So... you have some choices in front of you. Since you were on orders when this condition worsened to the point of needing to be sent home, you are eligible for MEDCON. It is a program that will keep you on orders and pay you your military salary while keeping you on TriCare. It is optional and you don't have to take these orders, but they are afforded to you once you apply BUT no one, and I mean no one will tell you about this crap. You have to do the leg work yourself. the AFI for LODs is 36-2910 and it also discusses MEDCON and what it means.

If you make more at your civilian gig, it probably wont work, but if you want the orders, it will be nice. Another benefit... if you happen to make it to an MEB by a service connected issues that was aggrevated by military orders, you can be medically retired "on active duty", meaning you would get a pension and access to tricare. Don't get your hopes up as it is really difficult to pull off, but as I see it right now, this is a potential option IF you get on the ball with MEDCON.
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Thank you for the response, I have a good job so I am going to chose to go back to that when I get home. I am not looking to get medically retired, but if it happened cool. For myself and wellbeing I would like to get medically separated at this point, since I can't even do the job I signed for now.
 
Guardguy11 said:
So... you have some choices in front of you. Since you were on orders when this condition worsened to the point of needing to be sent home, you are eligible for MEDCON. It is a program that will keep you on orders and pay you your military salary while keeping you on TriCare. It is optional and you don't have to take these orders, but they are afforded to you once you apply BUT no one, and I mean no one will tell you about this crap. You have to do the leg work yourself. the AFI for LODs is 36-2910 and it also discusses MEDCON and what it means.

If you make more at your civilian gig, it probably wont work, but if you want the orders, it will be nice. Another benefit... if you happen to make it to an MEB by a service connected issues that was aggrevated by military orders, you can be medically retired "on active duty", meaning you would get a pension and access to tricare. Don't get your hopes up as it is really difficult to pull off, but as I see it right now, this is a potential option IF you get on the ball with MEDCON.
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Update - I was told that I could go to the ER here on base to obtain an LOD. But since my back injury started I was in the Navy on deployment and documented it when I came back from deployment off of orders and asked if I could go home instead of treatment. Since then in 2017 it has only gotten worse with the arising issues of the bulging disc, sciatic nerve pain, neck pain and migraines. So my home base said they would try to get me MEDCON orders but since the injury happened in the Navy I am not sure, so in my opinion an LOD would have to be obtained from the initial injury in 2017 from the Navy, although it was progressively getting worse through time until current.
 
Negative. You don't have to have an LOD from the initial injury. In 36-2910 it talks about what an LOD is and how it can be classified. For you, your current injury is classified as "service aggravated". You just have to be able to point to a moment, while on orders, that you did something that re-injured or "aggravated" an existing injury. I now it sounds petty, but words matter.

Once you have an LOD, Tricare will cover any treatment relating to that issue BUT the LOD has to be signed at a minimum by your commander. This is called an Interim LOD. In your commanders comments it needs to say, "Approved. Presumed In The Line of Duty (ILOD)". This will allow the "investigation" to continue while you get care. MEDCON is great, but again, the purpose of MEDCON is to get you back to service. Once you fall into the grey zone of not being fixable with no active care plan, they will kick you off MEDCON if you are not already in the IDES program.

Any questions on this?
 
Guardguy11 said:
Negative. You don't have to have an LOD from the initial injury. In 36-2910 it talks about what an LOD is and how it can be classified. For you, your current injury is classified as "service aggravated". You just have to be able to point to a moment, while on orders, that you did something that re-injured or "aggravated" an existing injury. I now it sounds petty, but words matter.

Once you have an LOD, Tricare will cover any treatment relating to that issue BUT the LOD has to be signed at a minimum by your commander. This is called an Interim LOD. In your commanders comments it needs to say, "Approved. Presumed In The Line of Duty (ILOD)". This will allow the "investigation" to continue while you get care. MEDCON is great, but again, the purpose of MEDCON is to get you back to service. Once you fall into the grey zone of not being fixable with no active care plan, they will kick you off MEDCON if you are not already in the IDES program.

Any questions on this?
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No questions on this so far, I will look up the 36-2910 and relay to my supervisor, I am just on stand by while my base figures out what they are going to for me next. Thank you for all the help
 
Guardguy11 said:
Negative. You don't have to have an LOD from the initial injury. In 36-2910 it talks about what an LOD is and how it can be classified. For you, your current injury is classified as "service aggravated". You just have to be able to point to a moment, while on orders, that you did something that re-injured or "aggravated" an existing injury. I now it sounds petty, but words matter.

Once you have an LOD, Tricare will cover any treatment relating to that issue BUT the LOD has to be signed at a minimum by your commander. This is called an Interim LOD. In your commanders comments it needs to say, "Approved. Presumed In The Line of Duty (ILOD)". This will allow the "investigation" to continue while you get care. MEDCON is great, but again, the purpose of MEDCON is to get you back to service. Once you fall into the grey zone of not being fixable with no active care plan, they will kick you off MEDCON if you are not already in the IDES program.

Any questions on this?
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So.... need more advice. Made it back to home base and today I had to fill out a MFR, or medical summary memo, basically for medical, detailing how my injury happened, the progression of it all and other conditions associated with it etc. So I completed that and haven’t heard any further, they are still pushing for MEDCON orders which I respectfully asked to decline them and they said that we will cross that path when we get there.
 
Hopefully you were carful with your words in that memo. Yes, your injury happened prior to Guard service but you "aggravated" it while on orders. That is the key to this whole shebang. As for MEDCON, don't worry about "we can cross that rode when we get there". It's not up to them. The AFI and DODI specifically state the MEDCON is voluntary. The Air Force doesn't want to pay for you to be on orders. U.S. Code forces them to, so when you say you don't want it, they are happy to oblige. Trust me. A simple search of MEDCON on this forum will detail how hard it is to stay on MEDCON. They actively try to find ways to not pay for orders.
 
Guardguy11 said:
Hopefully you were carful with your words in that memo. Yes, your injury happened prior to Guard service but you "aggravated" it while on orders. That is the key to this whole shebang. As for MEDCON, don't worry about "we can cross that rode when we get there". It's not up to them. The AFI and DODI specifically state the MEDCON is voluntary. The Air Force doesn't want to pay for you to be on orders. U.S. Code forces them to, so when you say you don't want it, they are happy to oblige. Trust me. A simple search of MEDCON on this forum will detail how hard it is to stay on MEDCON. They actively try to find ways to not pay for orders.
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Sounds good to me. I was careful with my words and stated the truth. “I had a virtual appointment with the VA while at tech school to seek more help for my back as sitting a chair was making my pain worse and I was prescribed lidocaine patches.” Which happened while I was on orders. Thank you for all the help!
 
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@tobefit, be advised that most Guard units know very little about the MEDCON / LDES program other than 30,000ft management. Once you have been deemed unfit, your wing will no longer (if ever) advocate for you. It's up to you to know the system and how to navigate it. You will have well intentioned people trying to help but it will mean nothing in the big scheme of things. Your PEBLO will be of more use, but again, their allegiance is to the Air Force and not you.
 
Guardguy11 said:
@tobefit, be advised that most Guard units know very little about the MEDCON / LDES program other than 30,000ft management. Once you have been deemed unfit, your wing will no longer (if ever) advocate for you. It's up to you to know the system and how to navigate it. You will have well intentioned people trying to help but it will mean nothing in the big scheme of things. Your PEBLO will be of more use, but again, their allegiance is to the Air Force and not you.
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Makes perfect sense. I guess one day at a time. A friend of the unit said that “during the investigation they may question weight lifting videos on social media and You could get screwed”. I posted videos before but nothing is on social media for anybody to reference too because it’s all deleted, plus I lift in my limitations to try to not be fat. Any insight on what my buddy told me? It was a pretty irrelevant thing to say considering I have had my back issue for years and it’s getting worse with time, plus an MRI doesn’t lie.
 
There is no validity to that statement. You are required to workout to maintain physical fitness standards for military readiness. Don't let someone that doesn't know the system throw you bad gouge. Remember, the name of the game is aggravation. You could have been perfectly healed and fine during those lifting videos after the initial injury. Then, through no fault of your own, while on orders, your condition was aggravated by your service.
 
Guardguy11 said:
There is no validity to that statement. You are required to workout to maintain physical fitness standards for military readiness. Don't let someone that doesn't know the system throw you bad gouge. Remember, the name of the game is aggravation. You could have been perfectly healed and fine during those lifting videos after the initial injury. Then, through no fault of your own, while on orders, your condition was aggravated by your service.
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Copy that, thank you. I will keep you updated
 
Guardguy11 said:
There is no validity to that statement. You are required to workout to maintain physical fitness standards for military readiness. Don't let someone that doesn't know the system throw you bad gouge. Remember, the name of the game is aggravation. You could have been perfectly healed and fine during those lifting videos after the initial injury. Then, through no fault of your own, while on orders, your condition was aggravated by your service.
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Finally talked to medical today-

they told me that I can get off of orders, but don’t qualify for the line of duty since it happened prior service in the navy in 2017 and that they weren’t pushing for medcon orders, which is perfectly fine with me. They said they want me to get better through whatever avenue I have to do, like PT, chiro, surgery, etc. So I am going to elect to not do surgery since I am young still. But they said they will give me time to fix the bulging disc and nerve pain, neck and migraines. They said at the 9-10 month mark they would start thinking about a MEB if I am not better with my back or my migraines. I’m surprised they aren’t starting the MEB now, even though getting help, surgery if I wanted it etc would be much longer than a year. Thoughts?
 
tobefit said:
Finally talked to medical today-

they told me that I can get off of orders, but don’t qualify for the line of duty since it happened prior service in the navy in 2017 and that they weren’t pushing for medcon orders, which is perfectly fine with me. They said they want me to get better through whatever avenue I have to do, like PT, chiro, surgery, etc. So I am going to elect to not do surgery since I am young still. But they said they will give me time to fix the bulging disc and nerve pain, neck and migraines. They said at the 9-10 month mark they would start thinking about a MEB if I am not better with my back or my migraines. I’m surprised they aren’t starting the MEB now, even though getting help, surgery if I wanted it etc would be much longer than a year. Thoughts?
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Typical medical response. This is where advocating for yourself is necessary. You need to print off the information in 36-2910 that talks about "service aggravation" and bring that to them. You can show them in the AFI that even though the injury happened in the Navy, it is much worse now that you aggravated it while on orders.

Like I said before, most people barely know what the acronym MEDCON even stands for let alone the ins and outs. You need to fight for an LOD. It will pay dividends later on. The VA will cover you for this injury regardless, but if this ends up going to an LDES, you will want the LOD to show that this condition was aggravated while in the Air Force and thus should be considered as an unfitting condition for service. This could be the line in the sand between having Tri-care for life or severance pay.
 
Guardguy11 said:
Typical medical response. This is where advocating for yourself is necessary. You need to print off the information in 36-2910 that talks about "service aggravation" and bring that to them. You can show them in the AFI that even though the injury happened in the Navy, it is much worse now that you aggravated it while on orders.

Like I said before, most people barely know what the acronym MEDCON even stands for let alone the ins and outs. You need to fight for an LOD. It will pay dividends later on. The VA will cover you for this injury regardless, but if this ends up going to an LDES, you will want the LOD to show that this condition was aggravated while in the Air Force and thus should be considered as an unfitting condition for service. This could be the line in the sand between having Tri-care for life or severance pay.
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I will get that working tomorrow, thank you again.
 
Just to add some concurrence to the posts from Guardguy11, for case purposes and your benefits, MEDCON is the preferred course of action.

Best of luck!
 
Jason Perry said:
Just to add some concurrence to the posts from Guardguy11, for case purposes and your benefits, MEDCON is the preferred course of action.

Best of luck!
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they denied me the MEDCON and released me from active duty today, the plan is to go through treatment for the next 9-10 months and if I am not better then MEB time they said.
 
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