I HAVE A QUESTION FOR EVERYONE!!!

I would like to take a poll about how people have been treated by their command since being told you were going through a MEB or PEB.

So how many people have been treated fairly and had full support from their command through their process?

How many people have been mistreated and not supported from their command through their process?

I would like to get the issue addressed to Congress and Senate while they are in session. Please respond if you would like to. This is really important to me because some of the posts I have seen so far have not shown any type of support and that includes my case. I just want it to end and not let anyone in the future get treated poorly.
 
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My command has been really supportive, giving me all the time in the world to go to appointments and also approving a 0900 work call because of my meds. I guess I am one of the lucky ones
 
My command was supportive, but there are a lot that are not. I have seen lot's of soldiers who are destroyed by horrible commands. I liken it to chickens on the farm. One chicken has a small problem and then the rest of the chickens pick it to death. They are relentless and never let up. The only way that bird can be saved is to be removed form that flock completely.

They had a Warrior Task Force in DC earlier this month. They asked for input and here is what I wrote. Some may not agree with everything I said, but it is what I believe. Obviously my ideas may not work for every warrior, but I think for many, it would mean everything. Here is my input was:

Good Afternoon,

I am writing in response to Karen Wessels request for information.

My name is Joseph Zumwalt and I recently was medically separated from the Army. I was a Chief Warrant Officer Two. My experience with the system was overall positive. I think what really opened my eyes to how bad the process could be, was the fact I worked during my transition for Army Community Services (ACS) and saw med board soldiers every day.

I believe very strongly that the key to my successful transition was being assigned to the WTU. Had it not been for the WTU, I think I would be in a much different situation today. Being assigned there let me break from my unit and a stigma that MEB soldiers are malingering. It also kept me from further damaging my back and hindering my recovery. Had I stayed, I would have continued to work hard even while going through the process. I am very big on leading from the front and just would have put myself and fellow soldiers at risk. My unit was very supportive and helped me a lot by making sure I got assigned to the WTU. I think that had a lot to do with the effort I put out over the years.

Anyway, at ACS, I saw a lot of soldiers going through the process. Most are very miserable, especially the ones who stayed in their unit. The problem with staying in a unit after it is determined you are going through an MEB is that your peer, subordinates and leaders just are not educated on the process. This lack of education leads to misunderstanding soldiers and tagging them as “trying to work the system” or just trying to get out of work. This leads to a true tendency to try and punish these soldiers. They do this by putting them on staff duty and CQ as often as possible and trying to find creative ways to get around the soldiers profile. A lot of the soldiers going through an MEB are going for behavioral health issues and this makes things even worse. Again, uneducated leadership does not how to deal with these soldiers and will taunt and punish them.

The biggest problem I saw at the WTU is a lot of soldiers give up. They know they are done in the Army and don’t care. They only do what they are told and wait out there time going to formations and appointments with NCMs. I chose to take a different route. I got in contact with our transition coordinator and found a job. I was placed in ACS and received OJT on how to be an Army Emergency Relief Officer. Doing this not only improved my job skills, but also allowed me to network and focus on my transition. I was allowed to wear civilian attire and worked the schedule of the office I worked in. I had an agreement with the WTU that I would not miss any appointments and with ACS that allowed me to attend any appointments or WTU meetings I needed to go to. I kept my squad leader in the loop by calling and checking in each morning, rather than going to formation.

By having a job, I had the additional motivation to do well. Rather than just waiting out my time, I was building for the future. This was crucial to my mental health. I also saw it as a winning situation for the WTU and ACS. The WTU was able to support and brief my successes at ACS and maintain 100% accountability for me. ACS, got a “free” employee. With government shortfalls on budgets, this was huge. They filled a position that they would otherwise have to go without. Rather than sit on my butt and collect a paycheck, I was able to output something back for the money I was earning.

The biggest problem I had with the system was the lack of real information about transition. Yes they throw a lot of stuff at you, but they don’t get down into the nuts and bolts like how to actually get a job. A lot of these soldiers need to be lead through the process. The military is the only job they have ever had and more than likely, they weren’t a leader and had stuff fed to them. They were told day to day what to do. A guy like that is going to sit in ACAP briefs and not his head a lot, but will have no clue how to apply it.

RECOMMENDATION:
  • Once the official MEB process has started, Soldiers should be transferred to a WTU
  • Create a WTU platoon at the Brigade level. This will help alleviate the burden placed on over worked and under staffed WTU’s. These units could select NCOs and Officers based on a willingness and passion to work with wounded soldiers. Send them to the same schools that WTU cadre go to. It would take a little while to get off the ground, but I feel this approach would be very beneficial. The soldiers would remain within the parent a unit, but be pulled from the hostile environment at the lower unit level.
  • Require all MEB soldiers to find a job within the limitations of their injury. This program should be a must.
  • Work with “off post” employers to expand the work program for MEB soldiers. Again, they get free workers and the soldier gets OJT that can make all the difference in the world.
  • If a soldier is not in the work program, they must be in a school program. Make them go to school full time. They still qualify for tuition assistance, make them use it.
  • Make the ACAP program work. Make it applicable to a wounded warrior.
  • Assign a mentor to each MEB soldier. This will be a person who knows the MEB/PEB system and can point a soldier in the right direction.
This is just my short list. I have a long list and will gladly get it to you if you so desire. I truly believe there is a lot of potentially great things that could be done to help wounded warriors.

The response I received:

Mr Zumwalt,

Thank you. Great letter, I will provide it to the Members. I wish you lived in the area, you would be a great panel member. I think this letter will be very helpful to the Task Force. They have witnessed the climate in the line units and have made recommendations, mostly addressing the commanders responsibility to be respectful and recognize the limitations of the injured ill or wounded service member still assigned to their unit. You are right, it is not working.

Denise Dailey
Executive Director
Recovering Warrior Task Force
2850 Eisenhower Ave, Suite 100
Alexandria, VA 22314-4567
703-325-6651
 
The VA is the problem. Indeed al ot of information out there but it is very confusing from start to finish.

All issues with the VA should be addressed prior to getting out of the military ie life insurance, school benefits, compensation etc.
 
My command has been very supportive through out this process so far. I'm a traditional guard member who was on title 10 orders when injured, not sure if this has any bearing on why my command has been awesome in this very stressful period in my life, because they know that I have civilian commitments. But I could not have asked for a more supportive command and this is one of the reasons that has really helped me keep sane throughout this trying time. I can not imagine going through this ordeal with an unsupportive command like so many other members on this board have had to deal with.

Ranger2992-
Excellent post, letter, and ideas on how this broken system could be improved. Your ideas are spot on and I truly believe you make very valid ways that can help improve this system for the benefit of our service members. I really like and agree with your ideas on allowing service members work outside of their units in roles that are more along the lines of transitioning careers. This is one of the biggest issues that I have felt stressed out in because I can not perform the my military duties due to my injury and basically have been performing CQ duties in my shop which I really have a hard time not feeling like I'm making a positive contribution to the mission. Great post and ideas, lets hope things can get improved.
 
jazzndavid said:
I would like to take a poll about how people have been treated by their command since being told you were going through a MEB or PEB.

So how many people have been treated fairly and had full support from their command through their process?

How many people have been mistreated and not supported from their command through their process?

I would like to get the issue addressed to Congress and Senate while they are in session. Please respond if you would like to. This is really important to me because some of the posts I have seen so far have not shown any type of support and that includes my case. I just want it to end and not let anyone in the future get treated poorly.
Click to expand...

My command was very hit or miss. They were supportive as far as making my appointments went, but getting things done, routed was another story. It's as if they see your injured and cant do anything for them, so they give up on you. Thats just my experience though.
 
My direct command was pretty good about it, from the XO and up, they couldn't care less. All I did was hurt their numbers for PT, weapons, and such... The same way with my BN and BDE, as long as I took care of everything they didn't want to know anything but what date I was leaving.
 
My unit has been horribile with me during my MEB and with otheres in the unit that are going or have gone through it. I'm allowed to go to all my appointments but I'm always looked at as a disgrace. 2 guys that just got out were treated the same way. The COC would talk so bad about them. They even went as far as talking to their docs claiming they were lying and tried getting the docs to get them on stuff as well. I wish I would have support but all they care about is hurry up n get out worthless.
 
I would say mine was hit and miss. I was hospitalized for 45 days and they were great. Unfortunately when I was out on meds for the insomnia it went from good to bad for me. The doctors could not understand why I had severe reactions to my meds ie. hallucinations excessive sedation etc. turns out I have a chromosome abnormality. One of my chromosomes does not metabolize the medication like a normal person. I was out on quarters for 3 days and unit showed up with counseling statements some I was told to sign and back date as they couldn't find the old ones, and I started sleeping in my car at work to be there on time since the meds either kept me sedated or I couldn't drive on it. I failed a pt test when I couldn't even stand on my own from sedation of meds. I was put in for an article 15 for failure to show. I mentioned going to legal to see my options in case a chapter packet was on in for me, and next thing, the O-3 was pissed off telling my doctor I was threatening to go to legal on the command which was false. It was good with the command and then really shit I was burning myself with cigarettes, cutting and suicidal with a second hospital stay. Now it's back to good. They are just waiting for my board to be completed since my board is waiting for VA with ratings.
 
My unit has been HORRIBLE. It started immediately after I got injured. I was passed over for promotion because I was on profile. That's against regs but they did it anyway. I was treated like crap because I was suddenly a dirtbag due to being injured and I sought medical care for it....unforgivable in this unit. Then there were the bad details, the name calling, disrespect, etc... And when I was not allowed to deploy, it only got worse...A LOT worse. My car was keyed several times, I've been set up for failure so that I would get into trouble, some people just made stuff up, etc... And the 1SG was supportive and even a catalyst for all of this nonsense.

Fortunately, the toxic 1SG is now gone but the damage has already been done.

I could go on and on with examples of the horrible treatment that I have endured but I'm sure you can all imagine.
 
My command sucks when it comes to this. If you are going through the MEB process it is as if you are the red-headed stepchild. My evaluation suffered because of it, and I was told by my reporting senior that he had a real problem with rating me over an individual who is world-wide assignable which I thought evaluations were supposed to evaluate your performance only. Secondly, my EAOS is approaching fast, which mean that if a retain-in-service is not done prior to that date then all of my pay and entitlements come to a screaching halt, and my admin office contacted me 20 before and said well what are you going to do because you will not get paid in about 20 days. Luckily, I was proactive vice reactive and already handled the retain-in-service on my own with the proper people. They also repeatedly cc about 30 folks on emails pertaining to my MEB that have no business even being involved, a total lack of respect for my privacy. Lastly, they make me feel like I am of no use to the command or the military any longer and they conveniently forget about the 12 years in which I served honorable without one glitch of trouble. They fail to realize that I did not ask to be sick, and if I had my way I would not be.
 
My command was neither supportive nor mean. They followed what they had to, worked on PT issues (like paperwork for not meeting standards), and in the end decided not to push through a rank reduction due to the fact that it would lower my severance. I definitely appreciated that and let them know that I did. They weren't mean to me at all, but I got the feeling that my commander was not happy to have a broken troop. All in all, not a bad experience, but I kind of wish I would have had the supportive command. I might have been able to walk out with a retirement as opposed to a separation. But, it is what it is. As far as during the process, they were as good as I could reasonably expect, and I am overall satisfied with my experience with my command. It is my experience with the PEB and the VA that I cannot stand.
 
ranger2992 said:
My command was supportive, but there are a lot that are not. I have seen lot's of soldiers who are destroyed by horrible commands. I liken it to chickens on the farm. One chicken has a small problem and then the rest of the chickens pick it to death. They are relentless and never let up. The only way that bird can be saved is to be removed form that flock completely.

They had a Warrior Task Force in DC earlier this month. They asked for input and here is what I wrote. Some may not agree with everything I said, but it is what I believe. Obviously my ideas may not work for every warrior, but I think for many, it would mean everything. Here is my input was:

Good Afternoon,

I am writing in response to Karen Wessels request for information.

My name is Joseph Zumwalt and I recently was medically separated from the Army. I was a Chief Warrant Officer Two. My experience with the system was overall positive. I think what really opened my eyes to how bad the process could be, was the fact I worked during my transition for Army Community Services (ACS) and saw med board soldiers every day.

I believe very strongly that the key to my successful transition was being assigned to the WTU. Had it not been for the WTU, I think I would be in a much different situation today. Being assigned there let me break from my unit and a stigma that MEB soldiers are malingering. It also kept me from further damaging my back and hindering my recovery. Had I stayed, I would have continued to work hard even while going through the process. I am very big on leading from the front and just would have put myself and fellow soldiers at risk. My unit was very supportive and helped me a lot by making sure I got assigned to the WTU. I think that had a lot to do with the effort I put out over the years.

Anyway, at ACS, I saw a lot of soldiers going through the process. Most are very miserable, especially the ones who stayed in their unit. The problem with staying in a unit after it is determined you are going through an MEB is that your peer, subordinates and leaders just are not educated on the process. This lack of education leads to misunderstanding soldiers and tagging them as “trying to work the system” or just trying to get out of work. This leads to a true tendency to try and punish these soldiers. They do this by putting them on staff duty and CQ as often as possible and trying to find creative ways to get around the soldiers profile. A lot of the soldiers going through an MEB are going for behavioral health issues and this makes things even worse. Again, uneducated leadership does not how to deal with these soldiers and will taunt and punish them.

The biggest problem I saw at the WTU is a lot of soldiers give up. They know they are done in the Army and don’t care. They only do what they are told and wait out there time going to formations and appointments with NCMs. I chose to take a different route. I got in contact with our transition coordinator and found a job. I was placed in ACS and received OJT on how to be an Army Emergency Relief Officer. Doing this not only improved my job skills, but also allowed me to network and focus on my transition. I was allowed to wear civilian attire and worked the schedule of the office I worked in. I had an agreement with the WTU that I would not miss any appointments and with ACS that allowed me to attend any appointments or WTU meetings I needed to go to. I kept my squad leader in the loop by calling and checking in each morning, rather than going to formation.

By having a job, I had the additional motivation to do well. Rather than just waiting out my time, I was building for the future. This was crucial to my mental health. I also saw it as a winning situation for the WTU and ACS. The WTU was able to support and brief my successes at ACS and maintain 100% accountability for me. ACS, got a “free” employee. With government shortfalls on budgets, this was huge. They filled a position that they would otherwise have to go without. Rather than sit on my butt and collect a paycheck, I was able to output something back for the money I was earning.

The biggest problem I had with the system was the lack of real information about transition. Yes they throw a lot of stuff at you, but they don’t get down into the nuts and bolts like how to actually get a job. A lot of these soldiers need to be lead through the process. The military is the only job they have ever had and more than likely, they weren’t a leader and had stuff fed to them. They were told day to day what to do. A guy like that is going to sit in ACAP briefs and not his head a lot, but will have no clue how to apply it.

RECOMMENDATION:
  • Once the official MEB process has started, Soldiers should be transferred to a WTU
  • Create a WTU platoon at the Brigade level. This will help alleviate the burden placed on over worked and under staffed WTU’s. These units could select NCOs and Officers based on a willingness and passion to work with wounded soldiers. Send them to the same schools that WTU cadre go to. It would take a little while to get off the ground, but I feel this approach would be very beneficial. The soldiers would remain within the parent a unit, but be pulled from the hostile environment at the lower unit level.
  • Require all MEB soldiers to find a job within the limitations of their injury. This program should be a must.
  • Work with “off post” employers to expand the work program for MEB soldiers. Again, they get free workers and the soldier gets OJT that can make all the difference in the world.
  • If a soldier is not in the work program, they must be in a school program. Make them go to school full time. They still qualify for tuition assistance, make them use it.
  • Make the ACAP program work. Make it applicable to a wounded warrior.
  • Assign a mentor to each MEB soldier. This will be a person who knows the MEB/PEB system and can point a soldier in the right direction.
This is just my short list. I have a long list and will gladly get it to you if you so desire. I truly believe there is a lot of potentially great things that could be done to help wounded warriors.


The response I received:

Mr Zumwalt,

Thank you. Great letter, I will provide it to the Members. I wish you lived in the area, you would be a great panel member. I think this letter will be very helpful to the Task Force. They have witnessed the climate in the line units and have made recommendations, mostly addressing the commanders responsibility to be respectful and recognize the limitations of the injured ill or wounded service member still assigned to their unit. You are right, it is not working.

Denise Dailey
Executive Director
Recovering Warrior Task Force
2850 Eisenhower Ave, Suite 100
Alexandria, VA 22314-4567
703-325-6651
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Awesome. U have my support!
 
My command has been phenomenal. I think being an officer has helped, but a positive attitude and a desire to continue meaningful contributions during the process goes a LONG way. The myth that "I have to stop ALL effort so the PEB thinks I'm really broken badly" is what gets people on the downhill slide, IMO. Additionally, I also believe that people are still required to be responsible for their actions. Just because a doctor will prescribe you 240 percocets a month (as mine did) doesn't mean you have to take them all and become a pill-head. Granted, I take a LOT of other pain meds to make up for it and am still in constant pain, but I think it's better than the alternative.

one caveat to this - obviously some people are hurt more than me... I do not mean to say that everyone who is on heavy painkillers should be judged, but I think a lot of people take way more than they "need" to take. I know I did for quite a while.
 
jazzndavid said:
I would like to take a poll about how people have been treated by their command since being told you were going through a MEB or PEB.

So how many people have been treated fairly and had full support from their command through their process?

How many people have been mistreated and not supported from their command through their process?

I would like to get the issue addressed to Congress and Senate while they are in session. Please respond if you would like to. This is really important to me because some of the posts I have seen so far have not shown any type of support and that includes my case. I just want it to end and not let anyone in the future get treated poorly.
Click to expand...

I have been treated like crap and I pray that no other soldier has to go through what I have. I've been blocked from going to appointments, punished because I had appointments, and just after I signed by DA-199 and was trying to get my retirement orders, I was blocked from that and given an article 15 for what I feel is complete BS. I went through a horrible domestic violence issue and was diagnosed with PTSD/TBI. I also have a brain tumor in my pituitary, that although benign, messes with all of my hormones and has been a horrible mess to deal with. I also have back and hip problems because I was thrown out of the back of an LMTV during urban ops training. I sucked up the hip and back issues for almost 3 years and limped around, not wanting to be med boarded out, but after the way I was treated... I begged for someone to get me out of here! My son tried to hang himself about 2 months after the domestic issue and I was told by a senior nco that if I didn't have such a bad attitude my son wouldn't have tried to kill himself!!! I was also told I was the most irresponsible soldier she'd ever seen in her whole career because I forgot to pay my star card twice in this process, due to medications and memory loss. I would NEVER WISH THIS ON MY WORST ENEMY!
 
rum said:
My unit has been horribile with me during my MEB and with otheres in the unit that are going or have gone through it. I'm allowed to go to all my appointments but I'm always looked at as a disgrace. 2 guys that just got out were treated the same way. The COC would talk so bad about them. They even went as far as talking to their docs claiming they were lying and tried getting the docs to get them on stuff as well. I wish I would have support but all they care about is hurry up n get out worthless.
Click to expand...
this sounds just like mt COC. Alot of the e6 above were jealous. So they would set me up for failure. Never text me or anything. I would have to talk to a buddy just to find out where everyone was.
 
My Command has been very supportive. I've been moved into a billet that allows me to meet all appointments, and do anything I need to transition back to civilian life. Every meeting with any senior leader of each section has gone well. Writing my Non-Medical Summary was simple and every bit of my input was added to what the command had to say about me. Face to Face meeting with my SgtMaj ensuring me he would do everything in his power to make sure I'm taken care of. I am not a troublesome Marine, I'm a Sgt been in about 8 years and deployed 3 times. That probably has a good bit to help out with my situation. I believe alot of guys that get hurt lose motivation in themselves and their unit due to the majority of their senior leaders not knowing how to approach the situation. I was the first in my command to go through the entire MEB process. Alot of Marines prior to me just simply gave up or go in trouble prior to their MEB starting. In the Marine Corps, if you can not run up that hill with your M4 and 40lb pack on and back you aren't very valuable to them. Being in a Infantry unit I definetly expected to have alot of bad comments, being call a malinger, dirt back, broke dick etc. But none of this has happened. I do believe it comes down to the individual person. If your good at your job, you continue to do what your told, show up to work, keep everyone in the loop about your situation then there will be no reason for any negativity from fellow service members. But some guys cannot get over it.

All in all keep yours heads up. Do what you must do to ensure a clean transition. Talk to your PEBLO, and Medical Officers if anyone gives you trouble. They are there to help school up your leaders that do not know how to approach these situation.
 
Wow, after reading all of these I am afraid to start this process. What sucks is I am going to a new position in ewis and they are expecting an able-bodied person. It dosen't matter guess in the long run if you are hurt the you are hurt and have to get better or get out. I only hope that I might end up in a good unit or WTU that allows me to use my MOS/skills when not at appts.
 
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