Discharge Correction for narrative?

Voslik

Voslik

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Good Morning,

I've got a question about getting my records corrected. When comes to my discharge, narrative reasons, and re code I am pretty savvy; I've done much research over the years.

I'm your common case on boards like these. Discharged in 2004 General (UOC) JFX1 Personality disorder. Whether this helps me reenlist or get it corrected I don't mind either or.

I requested every document I possibly could from NPRC and MPRC. After reviewing them I am trying to find out what warranted a personality disorder. The discharge and re code I understand completely. However I trying to prove that my narrative was an error.

My XO ordered me to see a wizard, go to anger management classes, and some other classes I don't completely remember. I followed through with them and shortly afterwards the wizard submitted I be discharged. However I am finding no documentation stating I had personality issues.

My question is: Since I can't find documentation of reason for the narrative reason how would I provide that it was given in error? If the narrative is corrected should I pursue getting my discharge and re code corrected? I can't afford a lawyer and since the probability of getting anything corrected is pretty impossible are there services, or can my congressman help?

I'm at a loss as to how to provide documentation or lack there of that this was given in error. I understand fully that because I didn't complete my 4 year contract is the reason I received the type of discharge an re code I received. I'm not expecting a miracle, just to correct what I know is wrong.
 
My question is: Since I can't find documentation of reason for the narrative reason how would I provide that it was given in error? If the narrative is corrected should I pursue getting my discharge and re code corrected? I can't afford a lawyer and since the probability of getting anything corrected is pretty impossible are there services, or can my congressman help?

I'm at a loss as to how to provide documentation or lack there of that this was given in error. I understand fully that because I didn't complete my 4 year contract is the reason I received the type of discharge an re code I received. I'm not expecting a miracle, just to correct what I know is wrong.
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This is a touchy subject, as the code JFX for "Personality Disorders," and the code JMB for "Character or Behavior Disorders," are closely related. However, the fact that you have an RE code of 1 suggests the above identifiers may not be medically related. Because, the RE code 1 allows for re-entry into the service with no problem. So, you must research your military medical records if you have access to ensure you have nothing identifying an actual medical condition. Also, note that these codes can come about for Soldiers that receive UCMJ action, and are subsequently discharged following the action. Although, I am not sure what you hope to achieve by changing this code? But, in short, the process you will need to go through is the Board for Correction of Military Records (BCMR), and it can take a while to get through the entire hearing process.
 
I believe I might have had a typo. Im sorry for the confusion. I have an re code 4. I have my military records actually, all the medical are really from entry and exit of the Marine Corps. and have nothing in them either. You can see why I want to change the re code if possible, as I mentioned I want reenlistment as an option since such a code can't be waived. I have full understanding as to what that code means.

I did contact my congressman, since I am unable to afford a lawyer and signed a form and faxed it to him so that his office can look at my records. I'm no expert but I don't see any record of a medical condition being listed or assumed. As mentioned to I requested all available records and talked to NPRC, they informed me they only handle internal or clinical files due to my discharge era. To get those I would have to have dates, they said. However I never was sent or received clinical attention, other than regulated UA drops, shots, and physicals. I'm aware of the process that I have to go through, however, I would like a better idea on how to defend myself rather than sending records that have stood still for 8 years and they defend they are accurate after waiting 2 years. A lawyer said he would look them over for free as well so I thought about taking them to him but I would rather have my congressmen look at them.
 
Voslik said:
I believe I might have had a typo. Im sorry for the confusion. I have an re code 4. I have my military records actually, all the medical are really from entry and exit of the Marine Corps. and have nothing in them either. You can see why I want to change the re code if possible, as I mentioned I want reenlistment as an option since such a code can't be waived. I have full understanding as to what that code means.
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Does this include the records from your "wizard," visit? As, these records can be kept separately just as many organizations keep dental records separate. And, I have to ask if you have a history of UCMJ actions, as this can have an affect? Please do not take this in a negative way, it just helps fill in the picture. Because, Commands issue codes like that for generic reasons, such as: failure to follow direct orders, PT test issues, failure to adjust to military life, and other similar issues. The RE code however, is a whole different issue. So, it is very important to have the whole picture to be able to help. As for the option of a lawyer vs your Congressional Rep: IMHO - Because the burden of proof is on you for the BMRC, both of these options could be a waste of time if you are missing the proof needed to correct your records. So, do your homework on all military medical records, UCMJ actions, and other potential issues that may have cause your early separating, as you mentioned having to attend anger management. Collect all of this up, and then put together your case to change your code. However, don't give up the fight when it gets difficult.

Good Luck
 
More than likely your military medical records are at the regional VA hospital with responsibility for your geographical location. Try asking them. In order to be discharged for personality disorder you have to have a condition which is administratively disqualifying and not medically disqualifying. As such, there HAS to be (or have been) a medical record which states you have a personality disorder which doesn't amount to a medical disqualification. As for applying for correction of your records, if there is no medical record showing you were diagnosed with a personality disorder, the BCMR will make a presumption of regularity, that what the military did was correct. Essentially, they will say something like "While the applicant's records do not contain the medical record which diagnosed him with a personality disorder, it must be presumed that such a document existed at the time of his discharge. As such, the presumption of regularity must be applied in this case." Getting a psychiatrist to give you a statement saying you don't have a personality disorder won't help either. The BCMR will simply say that psychiatrist did not examine you at the time of your discharge and, therefore, his disagnosis cannot be used to refute a properly made diagnosis made by military physicians. In order to get the narrative reason for your discharged changed (which would automatically result in a change of RE code), you would have to show that there was no basis for making that diagnosis. I would look at your performance and disciplinary records as well as your awards and decorations. If you had an excellent military record, you could build a case. If you had a lot of adverse counselling statements and an Article 15 or two, you would be hard pressed to get the narrative reason changed. You can go to the American Legion and ask them for help with your case.
 
I had no hardships, legal issues, command issues, etc. stated in my record. I was sent to the wizard because I basically disobeyed my platoon sergeant, my individualism showed and got the best of me. However, the wizard took it that I was just angry and needed classes for it. After a few visits he recommended discharge. It could be in records I don't have however. I requested everything I possibly could. I have all my shot records to dental records. Since my congressional rep doesn't cost me a dime and since he is willing to look into the situation I figured I could get a better insight, having a lawyer look at the records rather than represent me gives me a better insight as well. So long story short, I know for a fact I don't have any UCMJ actions, I know I was never reprimanded for anything while I was in the Marines and if I do, then it isn't in any of the hundreds of records that I have. That's what confuses me, the wizard never states any behavioral issues either, from what records I have. It states the programs I attended and completed upon request. Knowledge is my best friend right now, I'm just trying to figure out just were to point out there is the mistake .

A year or two after got out, I heard from a veteran friend that during the time I was let out there were many people discharged erronously like myself, same codes and all. Congress cracked down on them and the military changed the narratives to "adjustment issues" rather than personality. Congress is beating this one up to as they feel that the classifications are erroneous to those who have served with out actually violating command rules and the UCMJ.
 
Ed, your information was HIGHLY informative and helped me understand quite a bit. I'm going to contact my VA to see if I am missing anything first. When it comes to my military performance I am clean as a whistle. I passed all my physicals, reported to my duties on time, and have absolutely no article 15s. As far as disciplinary records show I have none. Though I had an argument with my platoon sergeant, I followed orders from my XO and First Sergeant. I think I will try the American Legion soon too. Thanks.
 
Based on what you just said, I would make a case that while you and your platoon sergeant got into disagreements, your records will show that he was the only person you ever had issues with. That is not in keeping with a deeply ingrained personality disorder. Therefore, if there was a diagnosis of personality disorder it had to stem from input from your platoon sergeant and not as a result of an examination.
 
Voslik said:
I had no hardships, legal issues, command issues, etc. stated in my record. I was sent to the wizard because I basically disobeyed my platoon sergeant, my individualism showed and got the best of me. However, the wizard took it that I was just angry and needed classes for it. After a few visits he recommended discharge. It could be in records I don't have however. I requested everything I possibly could. I have all my shot records to dental records. Since my congressional rep doesn't cost me a dime and since he is willing to look into the situation I figured I could get a better insight, having a lawyer look at the records rather than represent me gives me a better insight as well. So long story short, I know for a fact I don't have any UCMJ actions, I know I was never reprimanded for anything while I was in the Marines and if I do, then it isn't in any of the hundreds of records that I have. That's what confuses me, the wizard never states any behavioral issues either, from what records I have. It states the programs I attended and completed upon request. Knowledge is my best friend right now, I'm just trying to figure out just were to point out there is the mistake .

A year or two after got out, I heard from a veteran friend that during the time I was let out there were many people discharged erronously like myself, same codes and all. Congress cracked down on them and the military changed the narratives to "adjustment issues" rather than personality. Congress is beating this one up to as they feel that the classifications are erroneous to those who have served with out actually violating command rules and the UCMJ.
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Voslik - This is certainly something you need to address, but make sure you have all of the evidence. Little know piece of info about me, I went through some thing similar in 2001-2002 and I won my appeal for re-entry into the service without going to the Board, but I had a different RE code.
 
An update on some information I received from Quantico. I looked at all my options as far as records go, I am still waiting on my medical records from St. Louis but the request has been put in. A new set of records and 3 copies of my DD214s were sent, which was odd because I didn't request anything from Quantico as of recent. The records show that I was discharged solely based on the psychic evaluation by the division psychiatrist. The statement of the only reason why I saw one was because of an argument with my platoon sergeant. It also says that the condition was pre-existing and that the Marine Corps. or "military" wasn't the cause. The only thing I can think of is to get a full psych eval to remove the fact that I am borderline or immature as stated in the documents.

When I enlisted I didn't need any waiver or have any issues stating I had any kind of psychiatric issues. The wizard sent me to all of those classes and I followed because it was ordered. Within the documents it says that with proper interventions it failed to rehabilitate me. I'm having an issue in seeing where I should began to fight. I'm obviously not mentally unstable and didn't have any previous issues. I'm up for suggestions, because I know what I want but I think I would truly be mentally unstable if I had to fight for 10 years. There is no record of my argument with the platoon sergeant either, which is extremely odd since I remember being counseled about arguing with a superior by the platoon 1st sergeant. Dust in the wind I suppose. Thank You gentlemen. If you would like to know more information ask away, considering I have my OMPF now.
 
If you do not have a copy of the counselings, or in some cases NCOERs that affected the situation then another approach may need to be taken to resolve this issue. A good place to start might be old battle buddies. Having them write character statements for you to submit with your medical records to the BCMR.
 
Unfortunately I haven't uncovered any of the counselings, there is a good chance they don't exist anymore, as far as buddies I haven't kept in touch with them. The medical records aren't going to show anything different either because I never went to the hospital over any of these issues. It was all dealt with on base. I've spoken with a lawyer completely out of my state and he wants over $5000 to get my discharge upgraded, and states that says he doesn't think we can get my RE Code change to enlistment status due to the decrease in forces. He is also unwilling to try but has said he will reveiw my records for free.

Considering the fact his price is insane with no guaranteed results I am looking for a lawyer to work for me in my state. Also have to prepare a case for whatever I can. I hate dishonest people, especially service members.
 
Voslik said:
Unfortunately I haven't uncovered any of the counselings, there is a good chance they don't exist anymore, as far as buddies I haven't kept in touch with them. The medical records aren't going to show anything different either because I never went to the hospital over any of these issues. It was all dealt with on base. I've spoken with a lawyer completely out of my state and he wants over $5000 to get my discharge upgraded, and states that says he doesn't think we can get my RE Code change to enlistment status due to the decrease in forces. He is also unwilling to try but has said he will reveiw my records for free.

Considering the fact his price is insane with no guaranteed results I am looking for a lawyer to work for me in my state. Also have to prepare a case for whatever I can. I hate dishonest people, especially service members.
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Have you considered asking Jason Perry to represent you in a BCMR? Not sure what his fees are for this type of work, but he does military related casework.
 
I'm not familiar with whom you speak, however, I will speak with him to see his position and to inquire his help. Might I ask how you know of him? I did find his sight and the list of things that he will do. It looks as though there may be a chance his services cover what I am looking for.

His fee is $5500 plus a travel feel of $1250. There may be a chance I have to rob a bank just to get justice. I was let go from my job last month and don't even get unemployment. OUCH!
 
Voslik said:
I'm not familiar with whom you speak, however, I will speak with him to see his position and to inquire his help. Might I ask how you know of him? I did find his sight and the list of things that he will do. It looks as though there may be a chance his services cover what I am looking for.

His fee is $5500 plus a travel feel of $1250. There may be a chance I have to rob a bank just to get justice. I was let go from my job last month and don't even get unemployment. OUCH!
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Jason is the site founder here, that is how I know about him. I am involved in several discussion threads with him on other topics, as I am working on some issues from my military past with severance pay, MEB/PEB, and PDBR.
 
I wasn't aware of that! Gawd I feel defeated.......I came to this forum from another through searching for help actually and it's been giving me ideas and info ever since. I'm just looking to get back in, wish I could pay for a lawyer but until I get a job it's unlikely. It's good to know the information before hand however and to know the he is the site founder, wise on his part. Thank you.
 
Np. I do what I can now. There is no harm in asking him for guidance regarding your situation.
 
I know it's been sometime since I posted. Thanks to some individuals I was pointed in the right direction about obtaining some missing documents. Does anyone know of a lawyer that would just review what I know or the document and can advise whether to proceed? I finally found out the reason of narrative and discharge. It's really petty the way they classify individuals in my situation and this needs to be fixed soon.
 
Good Afternoon,

I spoke with one lawyer that gave me a free consultation, he said that I have at the least a 50% chance that my discharge and narrative could be upgraded to Honorable and narrative being Plenary Authority. Does anyone know what Plenary Authority means? I've done some research and haven't found anything relative to the means of discharges. The lawyer did inform me that there is no chance of getting my re code changed, his narrative reason being that since the defenses are downsizing they won't correct it. I am speaking to more than one lawyer however.

The other lawyer I spoke with on the phone and he was intrigued with my case, he feels it's worth fighting for but wanted to see my OMPF and medical docs before doing a full consult. One lawyer wants 3k and the other wants 1k. I just want what is rightfully mine and to reup. I don't care about the educational or medical benefits right now.

Thank you.
 
Its a fancy way of say Secretarial Authority. The narrative reason for your separation is tied to the SPD and RE code by the computer. The computer will automatically change the SPD and RE codes if the narrative reason is changed.

As I said the first order of business is to get a copy of your discharge packet where you have your commander's request for separation and his supporting documents. You commander's recommendation for discharge will probably say things like "has a history of being disruptive within the command, refuses to obey orders, and his retention would be contrary to the good order and discipline of the unit." Remember, your commander was trying to justify your separation. As supporting documentation he HAD to have a medical document showing you had a personality disorder which was not medically disqualifying.
 
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