CRDP for "20 Good Years" reserve time but MEB while on active duty

wavy4jc said:
Hi Ron, the poster asking about the CHP 61 retirement above was asking, when they reach 60, will they continue to get the Active Duty retirement pay, or, will they revert to the reserve/national guard retirement pay they would have been entitled to after reaching 60.

Answer: Whichever is greater.

In my case, I am 58 yrs old and receive VA (90% rating) and DFAS (50% rating) disability retirement pay. My Active Duty disability retirement that I am currently receiving will continue when I reach 60. I have already figured out that I would receive less if I were to receive Reserve Retirement pay when I reach 60. So, when I reach 60, the only difference in my pay will be I will get VA and full DFAS medical retirement pay. hope that helps
Click to expand...

Hello Ray,

Yes I understood that, but CRDP and CRSC were mentioned in the thread so I thought I would offer some info on those subjects.

Not that you need my affirmation, but your answer "Whichever is greater" is accurate.

With regard to what occurs with your pay upon reaching ~60 years of age (based on your info):

1. You will choose the higher DoD disability retirement.
2. You will continue to receive all your VA compensation.
3. Your DoD disability retirement pay will be reduced dollar for dollar in the amount of VA compensation received.
4. Since at that time you are eligible for CRDP, that restoration (CRDP) of waived retired pay will restore/give back the waived retired pay not to exceed the dollar amount of the longevity portion of retirement (which in the case of a reservist, is the amount a reserve retirement would pay). CRDP paid by DFAS is actually retired pay, restored. A comment on page two of your RAS will show how much CRDP you are receiving...it will be part of the gross pay on page one of the DFAS RAS.
5. CRDP does not restore waived DoD disability retired pay that is the amount in excess of the dollar amount of the longevity portion.
 
CRDP is the mechanism that allows concurrent receipt for those who qualify per current law. One can view CRDP as a restoration of waived retired pay and those who receive CRDP can see the amount of CRDP on page two of their DFAS RAS. Since CRDP is retired pay, it is included in the gross retired pay on page one of the DFAS RAS.

DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 64

640401. Special Rule for Disability Retirement

Members retired for disability under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61 §§ 1201 through 1222 remain subject to the offset required under 38 U.S.C. §§ 5304 and 5305 for any retired pay they receive that is in excess of the amount of retired pay to which they would be entitled under any other provision of law based on service in the Uniformed Services, had they not retired for disability. Since retired pay in excess of the amount calculated for years in service is still subject to offset under the CRDP program, a member with an amount of retired pay remaining after offset of VA disability compensation, that is greater than the amount calculated for years of service, is not eligible for any increase in payment of retired pay under the CRDP program.
 
After reading and researching if you can comments and questions as well if I am wrong please if you can show me where I am wrong as after going to congress reciieving an answer from the Marine Corps "well that just doesn't count in this case" does not cut it. Recommendations on how to rectify would be great. Bottom line is I have an active duty retirement code and the last FMR below tells me I rate active duty retirement with my 20 year letter thank you for reading.

Here is a great one. DFAS statres I owe them over 44,000.00 in overpayments due to that fact that as a reservist I do not rate CRDP until age 60 which in mmy situation I believe they are completely wrong.
Background. I was a reservist with a 20 year letter (17+years in points so not 20 years in points) when I was injured and placed on TDRL and finally PDRL
Why I feel I rate it before age 60.
When placed on TDRL IU was informed I was being returned to active duty and all my total years in service would be counted as active. I provide the following to show this is true and for ALL OF YOU to look up your retirement codes to see if you were also given active duty "Regular" retirements and if your service gives you constructive service.

I was returned to ACTIVE DUTY and given an ACTIVE DUTY Retirement code.
DFAS based its findings under the following DoD FMR (I believe they are in error on this regulation as well as a second DoD FMR which they have overlooked).

http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/Volume_07b.pdf (DoD 7000.14 - R DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT ...
comptroller.defense.gov dod 7000.14 - r . department of defense financial management regulation . volume 7b: “ military pay policy and procedures - retired pay” under secretary of defense

I believe DFAS is in error as it sites: DoD FMR Volume 7B Chapter 12 Section 1202 as the reason for this over payment. (pages 230-242 of the actual document) (pages 12-1 through 12-18 of the chapter)12 Section 1202 as the reason for this over payment. (pages 230-242 of the actual document) (pages 12-1 through 12-18 of the chapter). However DFAS fails to recognize me as active duty retired DoD FMR Volume 7B Chapter 1 Section 0102 Paragraph 010402 Sub Paragraph D.2 (Disability Active Duty Retirement).

DFAS I believe overlooked this second FMR which clearly states I am credited "constructive service based on my return to active duty. USMC regulation also state that once returned to active duty as an Officer all reserve time is constituted as ACTIVE DUTY for retirement purposes. (page 22 of the actual document) (page 1-21 of the chapter).
http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/Volume_07a.pdf

DoD FMR Volume 7A - comptroller.defense.gov
comptroller.defense.gov
dod 7000.14 - r . department of defense financial management regulation . volume 7a: “ military pay policy - active duty and reserve pay ” under secretary of defense

DoD FMR Volume 7A clearly states in Chapter 1 Section 0101 Paragraph B and Paragraph C.1.2 That on returning to active duty I rated "constructive service" for all reserve time which was then converted to active duty service time. (pages 5 and 6 of the actual document) (pages 1-4 and 1-5 of the paragraph)
 
Hello Group!

I am new to this group and I need some help.

I am a Chapter 61 retiree (injured on AD) with a total of 38 years (13yrs AD and 25yrs Army Reserve Time). DFAS advised me that they need my "reserve retirement orders" and a "Reduced Age/ 90 Day Drop Letter" before they can verify if I am eligible for CRDP. I called HRC, and they only confused me more. Please help! Not sure who I should contact to get this issue resolved.

Thanks
SFC R. Spikes
 
Hello SFC Spikes,

I am not a reserve retiree, but the following regarding CRDP for a retiree with the same circumstances was posted earlier this month on another veterans board to which I belong:

[quotation start]

If a reservist, on PDRL/TDRL, have a 20 year letter, and has active duty deployments post-2008; in order for HRC office to calculate one's early retirement date, one needs to send the following to HRC Reserve Retirement (i.e. become eligible for CRDP..):
- PDRL/TDRL orders
- DD form 214
- Mobilization orders
- 20 year letter
- Point statement
For more information on PDRL and TDRL retirements go to Defense Finance and Accounting Service page (DFAS)

Make sure in your e-mail to specify that the above is for early CRDP eligibility only, and not for reserve retirement.

https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/PDRL%2 ... Retirement

You can send the below e-mails, fax, or US Snail mail.

HRC Reserve Retirement Contact Info:
ATTN TAGD (AHRC-PDP-TR)
Human Resources Command
1600 Spearhead Division Avenue Dept. 482
Ft Knox KY 40122-5402

Phone Number: 502-613-8950
***Keep a copy of all submitted documents for your records***
To submit your retirement application via email or fax:
Email: usarmy.knox.hrc.mbx.tagd-retirement-application-request@mail.mil
Fax Number: 502-613-4524

https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Reserv ... etirements [quotation end]

Recommendation: Call HRC first to confirm the process.

Good luck,
Ron
 
Ron, and anyone else who help.

I hope to talk directly with those on this forum who have a situation just like mine listed below.

I have read through this thread and the thread you posted above. I haven't been to a PEB/MEB board yet and am a bit nervous about everything. I lost my confidence that I will be taken care of and don't want to loose my 30 years of service.

I just a little confused by CDRP and the rest but I understand at a minimum that you can retire from service and receive VA disability. I am reading that you can also receive medical retirement and receive VA disability. I understand that there is a procedure that might reduce some amounts but I am not 100% sure about the difference between Active Duty and Reserve retirements.

Maybe I just haven't understood things completely yet and I don't know all the terms and codes of the various retirements. I also might use some terms incorrectly so I will "Quote" some terms at times.

Still though, I haven't seen a question posted which matches my situation. So I will describe what is going on with me along with some assumptions.
  • 50 years old.
  • SFC/E-7
  • I have a 20-year letter
  • 30 years service (with the first 9 years straight Active Duty and the rest Reserve (with many deployments).
  • current drilling TPU reservist with a total of 6300 points with a ratio of .368 per point
    • amounts to $2318.40 (as if I was 60 and receiving non-regular retirement today)
  • I am 90% VA but totaling 100% IU P&T
    • my VA is $2,973.86
  • At the PEB/MEB I will assume I will receive higher than 30% disability
    • I have some serious conditions with some LODs for Reserve time injuries (Sleep Apnea) and documentation for early days on AD (back); other conditions include neurogenic bladder and other spine nerve damage which causes incredible groin pain

I am assuming I will be approved at a high enough % to receive "disability retirement";
  1. Does the disability = a % of base pay OR evaluation of points/grade/years?
    1. Who decides ?
    2. I heard they might not even get to the % phase and just ask if I want the point option, ever heard of that?
  2. If I am found unfit at MEB?PEB and allowed to "medically retire" will I be allowed to receive both the Army and the VA?
  3. Would you help me with the correct words, codes, and numbers which describe my situation?
  4. Would you help make some assumptions?
  5. Would you point out any warnings I need to look out for and be careful of?

Thank you for everything. I've learned a lot so far.

Jim
 
Incap2013,

This will not answer all your questions, but it will address some of them.

1. Computation of Reserve Retirement: https://militarypay.defense.gov/Pay/Retirement/Reserve.aspx

2. Computation of retirement, including disability retirement: https://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/plan/estimate.html

3. CRDP provides for Concurrent Receipt of Retired Pay and VA comp. Reservists must meet all the requirements (e.g., 50% or more VA rating) including the age requirement to receive CRDP. See https://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/disability/crdp.html

4. Some retirees are eligible for CRSC: See https://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/disability/crsc.html

5. As a disability retiree: You must waive retired pay dollar for dollar in the amount of VA comp received (some retirees will have residual retired pay remaining). Upon reaching the age requirement for reserve retirement (after receiving medical retirement) some or all of the waived retired pay will be restored via CRDP each month. CRSC does not have an age requirement for disability retirees...being retired suffices (along with the approved combat related disabilities; see link above).

Ron
 
I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this CRDP thread because it lead me down a path to almost $2,000+ per month more in retirement.

Here's my story.
I've served in Active Army, Army Reserves and Army National Guard.
In 2001 I received my National Guard 20 year letter.
In 2010 I was deployed to Afghanistan, injured and spent a little over 4 years on Active Duty receiving medical care.
I was Chapter 61 retired from the Army in 2014 at 70% and VA 100%.
My Army retirement pay is offset by VA disability.
When I processed out I was told when I became eligible for NG retirement DFAS would recalculate my retirement without the offset.
I received an NGB Form 23 (Retirement points statement) and on the back page my retirement age was reduced to 59 due to deployment time.
Now I know that ALL my WTU time on orders reduces my NG retirement age to 56.
I am now 57.
I called HRC Reserve Retirement @ 502-613-8950 inquiring about this information.
They pulled up my records, checked my DD 214 to see if it was done correctly to qualify for CRDP.
It was but the National Guard didn't understand and made a mistake calculating the reduced retirement age.
I sent them my 20 year letter, NG Form 23 and DD Form 108.
HRC will recalculate my reduced age to receive NG retirement to 56 and forward the information to DFAS.
I called DFAS to have the math explained.
My LES shows gross pay of $4,669 - VA Waiver $3,527 - SBP Costs $304 = Taxable income $837
Based on my retirement points and retired rank my NG retirement would be $3,087.
My new LES will show Gross Pay of $4,669 - VA Waiver $1,582 - SBP Costs $302 = Taxable income $2,783
The $4,669 - $1,582 = $3,087 (Equal to NG Retirement) which is covered by CRDP.
DFAS will simply reduce VA Waiver because under CRDP you can't receive more than the years of service retirement.
 
jeepn61 said:
When I processed out I was told when I became eligible for NG retirement DFAS would recalculate my retirement without the offset.
I received an NGB Form 23 (Retirement points statement) and on the back page my retirement age was reduced to 59 due to deployment time.
Now I know that ALL my WTU time on orders reduces my NG retirement age to 56.
I am now 57.
I called HRC Reserve Retirement @ 502-613-8950 inquiring about this information.
They pulled up my records, checked my DD 214 to see if it was done correctly to qualify for CRDP.
It was but the National Guard didn't understand and made a mistake calculating the reduced retirement age.
I sent them my 20 year letter, NG Form 23 and DD Form 108.
HRC will recalculate my reduced age to receive NG retirement to 56 and forward the information to DFAS.
I called DFAS to have the math explained.
My LES shows gross pay of $4,669 - VA Waiver $3,527 - SBP Costs $304 = Taxable income $837
Based on my retirement points and retired rank my NG retirement would be $3,087.
My new LES will show Gross Pay of $4,669 - VA Waiver $1,582 - SBP Costs $302 = Taxable income $2,783
The $4,669 - $1,582 = $3,087 (Equal to NG Retirement) which is covered by CRDP.
DFAS will simply reduce VA Waiver because under CRDP you can't receive more than the years of service retirement.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your interesting and helpful post.

Here is a somewhat related situation, albeit a retiree with 20 years AD, I computed a couple of months ago (selected info).

1. Subject: CRDP FOR CH 61 RETIREES WITH 20 OR MORE YEARS AD

2. (2)Chapter 61 disability retirees retiring with 20 or more years of service. Disability retired pay payable under 10 U.S.C. Chapter 61 to a veteran with 20 or more years of creditable service may be paid concurrently with disability compensation to a qualifying veteran subject to the following:

(i) Any waiver required during the phase-in period under paragraph (c)(1)(ii) of this section; and

---->> (ii) If the veteran's disability retired pay exceeds the amount of retired pay the veteran would have received had the veteran retired based on length of service, the veteran must waive that excess amount of disability retired pay in order to receive VA disability compensation.

(3)Chapter 61 disability retirees retiring with less than 20 years of service. Veterans who receive disability retired pay under 10 U.S.C. Chapter 61 with less than 20 years of creditable service are not eligible for concurrent receipt.

3. Computation (sans background information)
a. Gross retired pay = 5726
b. VA compensation = 3079.47
c. A minus B = 2646.53 residual retired pay
d. Dollar amount of longevity portion of retirement = 4023
e. D minus C = 1376.47 CRDP
f. "C" Residual 2646.53 + "E" CRDP 1376.47 = 4023
g. Result: DFAS pays 4023 (2646.53 residual ret pay + 1376.47 CRDP) VA pays 3079.47 TOTAL: 7102.47

Note: The result at DFAS was the same.

The common thread between the two is that residual retired pay plus CRDP cannot exceed the dollar amount of the longevity portion of retired pay.


Ron
 
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Hi Ron, Hope you can help me with my pay case. I was a reserve component officer 0E3 medically retired May 2015 under 10usc chap 61. Although i had 30 years in as a RC soldier the NG did not provide a 20 year letter until two years after i was medically retired under Chap 61 and the RPAS that came with my 20 year letter noted a reduced retirement date of 2013 due to multiple mobilization. I submitted my CRDP drop packet to HRC June 2017 and today i recieved a notice from DFAS wherein a retired pay offset of 281.28 a month is noted as a gross pay debt. I am not understanding how i am owing Defas. Looking forward to your expert advise in this area.
 
Ocean said:
Hi Ron, Hope you can help me with my pay case. I was a reserve component officer 0E3 medically retired May 2015 under 10usc chap 61. Although i had 30 years in as a RC soldier the NG did not provide a 20 year letter until two years after i was medically retired under Chap 61 and the RPAS that came with my 20 year letter noted a reduced retirement date of 2013 due to multiple mobilization. I submitted my CRDP drop packet to HRC June 2017 and today i received a notice from DFAS wherein a retired pay offset of 281.28 a month is noted as a gross pay debt. I am not understanding how i am owing Defas. Looking forward to your expert advise in this area.
Click to expand...
Re: "Notice"

If you are speaking of a Retiree Account Statement (RAS) produced by DFAS, page two of the RAS might explain the nature of the debt. Obliviously, if the notice is a letter, it should discuss the reason for the debt.

There are many possibilities for an offset. Some are recurring due to certain waivers in place.

I understand you are furnishing the info you have, but it is too vague to determine why $281.28 is being collected. I should add that I have never seen a RAS for a Chapter 61 retiree.

CRDP does not restore all of waived retired pay for CH 61 retirees eligible for CRDP. CRDP pertains to only the longevity portion of the retired pay. The difference between the longevity portion of retired pay and the disability portion is subject to offset.

Example of an offset, Chapter 61:
Retired Pay Gross: $3000
VA compensation: $3500 (causes $3000 offset of retired pay)
Dollar amount of longevity portion of retirement and CRDP in this example: $2600
Restoration of retired pay via CRDP: $2600
Remaining VA offset: $400


Suggestions:

Call DFAS
Customer Service Representatives are available Monday through Friday, from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Eastern Time. However, Monday is our busiest day, so we recommend calling Tuesday through Friday for shorter wait times.

Toll-free: 800-321-1080
Local: 216-522-5955

Present a question to AskDFAS




Good luck,
Ron
 
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Ron, Thanks for getting back with me dfas has been ineffective in this process and i am not trying to be negative becuase i understand you worked at dfas.
 
Ocean said:
Ron, Thanks for getting back with me dfas has been ineffective in this process and i am not trying to be negative becuase i understand you worked at dfas.
Click to expand...
Hello,

I retired in 1991, the year DFAS began. Prior to the advent of DFAS, each service had a finance center. The Army's was in Indianapolis, IN, co-located with Ft Benjamin Harrison.
Many of my former peers sought employment at DFAS; I chose to work for a university (and less money).

I don't take offense if someone complains about the processes at DFAS. In my opinion, some of the complaints are valid and others are a result of unfamiliarity with the requirements for certain pays.

I hope you receive what you are due soon.

Ron
 
Hi Ron, Updates re: the DFAS. Well... Dfas corrected the CRDP issues in my favor and backpay was sent. It unfortunately took 18 months with a lot of back and forth. Thank you again for your input.
 
Ocean said:
Hi Ron, Updates re: the DFAS. Well... Dfas corrected the CRDP issues in my favor and backpay was sent. It unfortunately took 18 months with a lot of back and forth. Thank you again for your input.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the update.

Great news on the backpay...

Ron
 
I'm looking for some assistance with a calculation of expected CRDP based on current info once HRC finally confirms to DFAS my eligibility.

Here's my story.
I served in Active Army, Army Reserves and Army National Guard.
In 2009 I received my 20 year letter while USAR.
In 2008 I was mobilized on 12302 orders, injured and spent a little less than 3 years on 12301(h) orders receiving medical care.
CRDP 90 Day Drop Calculator = 5.75 years Early Drop at 10 AUG 2018 (last year)
I was Chapter 61 retired as E8 from the Army in MAR 2014 at 50% DA and VA 90%.
My Army retirement pay is offset by VA disability.
When I processed out I was told when I became eligible for reserve retirement DFAS would recalculate my retirement without the offset.
My retirement orders listed:
Disability retirement: 16 years, 5 months, 12 days
Section 1405: 17 years, 10 months, 8 days
Basic Pay: 26 years, 9 months, 27 days
My DA Form 5016 (Points) shows 24 00 17 YRS qualifying years and 6223 points. It however currently needs a correction to 6574. Submitted docs to HRC new qualifying years for service will be 25 00 04
I am now 55.25.
I have called HRC Reserve Retirement @ 502-613-8950 numerous times inquiring about this information.
I am in a constant loop between HRC and DFAS with NO resolution.
They pulled up my records, checked my DD 214 to see if it was done correctly to qualify for CRDP. Answer YES.
I have now been working this issue for 18 months.
I have since sent them my 20 year letter, DD 214 and DD Form 108 (Reduced Age/90 Day Drop), copies of orders & DA Form 5016. AT NO TIME DURING NUMEROUS PHONE CALLS WAS I TOLD WHAT THE PROCESS FOR CH 61 CRDP was.
HRC Claimed to send on several occasions (SEP 2018, FEB 2019) only to be told by DFAS... We don't have anything from your service.
HRC should recalculate my reduced age to receive USAR retirement to 54.25 and forward the information to DFAS.
My LES shows gross pay of $3244 - VA Waiver $2120.19 - SBP Costs $214 = Taxable income $908
 
Hello SNCOMEMF,

Your case:

In order for you to receive CRDP now as a reservist, you would need
--Qualification for a regular retirement by accumulating 7200 points before you retired
--This suggests you did not attain the active duty equivalent (i.e., 7200 points) for a 20 AD regular retirement: "Disability retirement: 16 years, 5 months, 12 days."
OR
--Have qualified for reserve retirement now by virtue of "20 good years" and meeting the age requirement for reserve retired pay.

Per DoD: "A member is generally not eligible for Reserve (non-regular) retired pay until they reach age 60. However, any member of the Ready Reserve who is recalled to active duty or, in response to a national emergency, is called to certain active service after January 28, 2008, shall have the age 60 requirement reduced by 3 months for each cumulative period of 90 days so performed in any fiscal year after that date. " [Note: But not below age 50.] You are already aware of this info.

It appears that either your retirement orders are incorrect with "Disability retirement: 16 years, 5 months, 12 days" or the reduced age aspect of your situation has been incorrectly reported or interpreted. It is likely the latter.

Recommendation: Due to the loop you've been experiencing, the amount of time involved, and other unusual characteristics in this case, recommend you submit a fully documented case to your representative in the House or Senate.

You might want to simultaneously copy DFAS Retired Pay and your Human Resource Command with the material.

Good luck,
Ron
 
Addendum:

You mentioned, "My LES shows gross pay of $3244 - VA Waiver $2120.19 - SBP Costs $214 = Taxable income $908.

Using gross figures, your retired pay (upon receipt of CRDP) will be similar to the following;

The combination of residual retired pay (amount remaining after VA waiver) PLUS CRDP cannot exceed the amount of your reserve retired pay.
3244 minus 2120.19 = 1123.81 residual retired pay before SBP deduction and taxes.

Your reserve retired pay would be Active duty equivalent (16 years, 5 months = 16.416 AD years) 16.416 x 2.5% = 41.04% longevity multiplier
Average high three for base pay (extrapolated to include interim COLA increases) x 0.4104 = longevity portion of retirement
Longevity portion of retired pay minus 1123.81 residual retired pay = maximum amount of CRDP payable
You would receive the residual retired pay plus the max amount of CRDP payable from DFAS each month (those two amounts equal the longevity portion of retired pay)

Edited to add, based on info you provided:
Retired pay gross/0.50 retirement percentage: 3244/0.50 =6488 high three
6488 x 0.4104 longevity multiplier = 2662.68 longevity portion of retired pay. Your residual retired pay + CRDP = 2662.68
Maximum to be paid by DFAS: 2662.68 less residual retired pay of 1123.81 = 1538.87 CRDP
CRDP of 1538.87 + 1123.81 residual retired pay = 2662.68 paid by DFAS (note: CRDP is retired pay as well)

Ron
 
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