Computing years of service
- Thread starter B9195
- Start date
It well could have been just that.
However...
"The years of service for computing retired pay for Regular retirement are generally the total of years of active service. For non-Regular (Reserve/Guard) members, the years of service are the total of accumulated drill points combined with one point each day of active duty divided by 360. See section 0104 for determining years of service creditable for computing retired pay"
*010203. Retired Pay Multiplier
https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/Volume_07b.pdf <---LINK
DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 1
Ron
20 Good Years are required for a RC retirement. 7200 points is not required. The age requirement also must be met.
It is my understanding that a RC soldier who has 7200 points or more will quality for a regular retirement and immediate entitlement to retired pay. I have spoken to two retirees who retired under that provision. One still visits here occasionally.
Ron
Loving these posts!!! Very applicable to my wife's situation. Though she won't get close enough to get an active duty retirement its interesting how the calculation is done for the purpose of the reserve retirement when being medically retired. So as long as she is rated 30% DOD or higher the lowest percentage received for medical retirement would be 43%. She has 5543 points through 18 good years. If she can start her Fit for Duty exam in August that will add 365 to the total and then add another 365 to that because she can stretch out the IDES process to get to 20 good years. That will put her at 6273 points and 20 year letter meaning she can receive CRPD at age 60. 6273 points converts to 17.186 years of active service. If its divided by 360 her percentage would be slightly higher. I divided by 365. 17.186 X 2.5% = 42.965%
Without sounding argumentative, reserves divide points by 360 for percentage computation of retired pay. Now how that correlates to CRDP, I thought I could say, but I can’t. It would be great for me if it did. I’ve seen posts years back on this subject with statutes posted against 7200, but there are many people who have received, that I can tell And I’m happy for them. Are these anomalies, in error, I can’t see the differences, but I think the original poster might want to know. I guess ill know once I submit my points summary to DFAS.
CRSC:
Your DoD retirement orders will include a line in the bottom third of the page that shows something like: Disability retirement 10 years 3 months (example) That is considered the longevity retirement figure.
I can offer that after doing possibly 5,000 or more CRSC and CRDP computations manually since 2006, the estimate for the longevity portion of retired pay (which is the maximum CRSC or CRDP one could receive as a CH 61 retiree) usually corresponds with the figure on the orders.
Ron
Hello,
Re: "Without sounding argumentative, reserves divide points by 360 for percentage computation of retired pay. Now how that correlates to CRDP,"
Reserve computation: 360 is in accordance with current law
CRDP: I can assure you it is the same.
This is important:
*010203. Retired Pay Multiplier
https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/Volume_07b.pdf <---LINK
DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 1
CRDP and CRSC are in the same regulation, but within different chapters.
Ron
Re: "Without sounding argumentative, reserves divide points by 360 for percentage computation of retired pay. Now how that correlates to CRDP,"
Reserve computation: 360 is in accordance with current law
CRDP: I can assure you it is the same.
This is important:
*010203. Retired Pay Multiplier
https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/Volume_07b.pdf <---LINK
DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 1
CRDP and CRSC are in the same regulation, but within different chapters.
Ron
Army Reserve Retirement Points Information Guide
Reference: https://soldierforlife.army.mil/Documents/Army Reserve Retirement Point Information Guide 14 May 2018.pdf <--LINK
Overview This information guide provides an overview and standard operating procedures for the Reserve Component Retirement Points Accounting System (RPAS); when, where, and how Human Resources (HR) Professionals to contact Army Human Resources Command (AHRC) for assistance and input; when, where, and how to review Soldier retirement point records; business rules on cases unit HR personnel should complete and those that require assistance from AHRC; documentation required and how to acquire it to support retirement points transactions and corrections.
The information guide also includes information on crediting and awarding of retirement points, establishment of the Anniversary Year End (AYE) date, proof of performance documents, eligibility for retirement points, and retirement points for non-paid training.
Unit HR personnel with challenging cases should contact their Regional Personnel Action Center (RPAC), US Army Reserve Command G-1, Service and Support Division or Army Human Resources Command (AHRC), Personnel Action Branch (PAB). Additional information and guidance pertaining to retirement points is available on the Army Reserve Command G-1 website at https://arg1web.usar.army.mil/ and the AHRC web site at: https://www.AHRC.army.mil/TAGD/Retirement Points Accounting System R PAS.
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Opinion/Recommendation: Any RC member who is considering retirement and needs clarification as to what and when certain requirements must be met for retirement are encouraged to use official sources of information in making their final decisions. A board like this is useful for ideas and reports of anecdotal evidence and even interpretation of laws and regulations. However, the best sources of information are within the applicable commands such as the G1 discussed above. They work with matters such as discussed in this thread every day. There is no secret sauce here....
Ron
Edited to add.
He also mentioned:
"Hi Ron. My reference was from AF Legal Office of Airmen’s Council (OAC) and AFPC while going through the MEB. I wanted representation from the OAC because I wanted to make sure I get my 20 AD yrs as an AGR since I was so close. I had over 20 total time years and well over 7200 total points but was short in the AD column for points. I asked because I had heard through the rumor mill that it was based off total points for medical retirement but in order to draw immediately the Total AD points had to be 7200. When I spoke with AFPC about my orders and points, they had to contact ARPC to validate my total AD points and ARPC had to send them my point summary out to my projected retirement date. I was sent something in writing as to the 7200 AD point retirement from OAC. I’ll see if I backed it up from my work emails. On my retirement paperwork somewhere there is a calculation of my AD points as well as my total points. So I reached 20 AGR years but have over 20-plus years total with all those total points. It’s confusing for sure but in the end it all works out."
-----
Another case:
"Primary Alternate, you have to have 7200 points for retirement. unless you are AGR and have been active duty your entire time, your points total (6950) are most likely not all points for retirement. I was Active duty, Traditonal Air National Guard and AGR. I had over 8400 total points but not all were towards retirement, I had about 7400 plus for retirement so I was able to retire as active duty and receive my active duty retirement pay. it's kinda confusing but if you been in more than 20 years you will probably know how the calculations are done."--Sgt zo
LINK <----
Reference: https://soldierforlife.army.mil/Documents/Army Reserve Retirement Point Information Guide 14 May 2018.pdf <--LINK
Overview This information guide provides an overview and standard operating procedures for the Reserve Component Retirement Points Accounting System (RPAS); when, where, and how Human Resources (HR) Professionals to contact Army Human Resources Command (AHRC) for assistance and input; when, where, and how to review Soldier retirement point records; business rules on cases unit HR personnel should complete and those that require assistance from AHRC; documentation required and how to acquire it to support retirement points transactions and corrections.
The information guide also includes information on crediting and awarding of retirement points, establishment of the Anniversary Year End (AYE) date, proof of performance documents, eligibility for retirement points, and retirement points for non-paid training.
Unit HR personnel with challenging cases should contact their Regional Personnel Action Center (RPAC), US Army Reserve Command G-1, Service and Support Division or Army Human Resources Command (AHRC), Personnel Action Branch (PAB). Additional information and guidance pertaining to retirement points is available on the Army Reserve Command G-1 website at https://arg1web.usar.army.mil/ and the AHRC web site at: https://www.AHRC.army.mil/TAGD/Retirement Points Accounting System R PAS.
-------------
Opinion/Recommendation: Any RC member who is considering retirement and needs clarification as to what and when certain requirements must be met for retirement are encouraged to use official sources of information in making their final decisions. A board like this is useful for ideas and reports of anecdotal evidence and even interpretation of laws and regulations. However, the best sources of information are within the applicable commands such as the G1 discussed above. They work with matters such as discussed in this thread every day. There is no secret sauce here....
Ron
Edited to add.
Orange Sky reported: "In order to draw AD retirement immediately as an AGR, your Active Duty points must be over 7200. The other columns of points all count towards creditable service but what you want is the AD column to reflect 7200. Anything less, you have to wait until 60, minus T10 deployed time, which could reduce the age. You would draw your VA disability pay right away, however. It’s important to try to get that AD retirement if you can so you could draw both at the same time much sooner than 60."
LINK <----He also mentioned:
"Hi Ron. My reference was from AF Legal Office of Airmen’s Council (OAC) and AFPC while going through the MEB. I wanted representation from the OAC because I wanted to make sure I get my 20 AD yrs as an AGR since I was so close. I had over 20 total time years and well over 7200 total points but was short in the AD column for points. I asked because I had heard through the rumor mill that it was based off total points for medical retirement but in order to draw immediately the Total AD points had to be 7200. When I spoke with AFPC about my orders and points, they had to contact ARPC to validate my total AD points and ARPC had to send them my point summary out to my projected retirement date. I was sent something in writing as to the 7200 AD point retirement from OAC. I’ll see if I backed it up from my work emails. On my retirement paperwork somewhere there is a calculation of my AD points as well as my total points. So I reached 20 AGR years but have over 20-plus years total with all those total points. It’s confusing for sure but in the end it all works out."
-----
Another case:
"Primary Alternate, you have to have 7200 points for retirement. unless you are AGR and have been active duty your entire time, your points total (6950) are most likely not all points for retirement. I was Active duty, Traditonal Air National Guard and AGR. I had over 8400 total points but not all were towards retirement, I had about 7400 plus for retirement so I was able to retire as active duty and receive my active duty retirement pay. it's kinda confusing but if you been in more than 20 years you will probably know how the calculations are done."--Sgt zo
LINK <----
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Thanks Ron, mine says 10 usc 12733: 21.77 (7840 points). I do understand that to mean longevity. I’m near done with my CRSC package, but may wait until I resubmit my points summary to DFAS.
Interesting reading. On the Air Guard side, it is not uncommon for non-AGRs (traditionals) to receive active duty retirements with all the benefits. I’ve seen this quite a few times to include my last boss Two bosses. Now how many AD points they say they, needed would start another post, but either way, none I mentioned were Med Retired.
Thanks for the info.
cc: @SFC H @Guardguy11
Ron
Edited to add: I wish there was a publication that precisely outlined the requirements for an active duty retirement for a RC member. Much of what I have read is nebulous.
Something like (and supported by regulation/law): xx + xxxx and *** = qualification for an AD retirement, would be nice.
If I was a RC member with an eye to a 20 years AD retirement, I would ask the reserve command for something in writing that would support that opportunity.
Of course I never served in the RC for an extended period so I am not familiar with many of its processes.
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I'm new to this. I am 18y 3m in on AD (AGR) service (24 total), an IRILO has started for the second time, trying to make it to 20 AD yrs. My question is it 7200 or 7300 points required to retire (Where can I find this in regulations)? And second, If inactive duty time can be computed for a medical retirement (other than membership points), where can I find that in regulation? I am glad I found this forum and I am looking for points guidance to get me to 20yrs (in points). as of today I have 6649 AD points and 308 IDT points. Can someone help guide me? Thanks.
Total creditable points divided by 360 = active duty equivalent
I have never seen (in a regulation) that 7200 points allows immediate payment of retired pay. However, 7200 points divided by 360 = 20 years
Here is some info about points from a non-government web page:
Point Rule
Guard/Reserve members may accumulate a total of 365 points per year (366 in a leap year) from inactive and active duty service (one point for each day of duty). However, for retired pay calculation purposes, members can’t use more than 130 inactive points per year (for Reserve years ending before 23 September 1996) .Computation of Retired Pay
To determine how much retired pay you may be eligible to receive, the first step is to calculate the number of equivalent years of service. The formula for computing equivalent years of service for Reserve retired pay at age 60 is fairly simple:Total number of Creditable Retirement Points, divided by 360.
The formula computes the number of equivalent years of service the soldier has completed (comparable to full-time service). For example, 3,600 points equals 10 years.
Military Personnel will notify the Defense Finance & Accounting Service – Cleveland Center (DFAS-CL) of the number of years service you’ve earned.
Link to the non-government page: All About the Reserve and National Guard Retirement Pay System <----
Comment: If I had a situation similar to yours, I would reply on my Personnel Command for the requirements for Reserve Retirement when conversion of points are involved.
I am not an expert in this matter and received a regular retirement 30 years ago. Anecdotal evidence can be helpful, but on the other hand, I have seen some interpretations of CRSC laws that were...unfortunate.
There are members of this forum who had a retirement under the 7200 points scenario. You can use the search feature on this forum for there comments. In any case, 20 Good Years are required.
Another web site, this one is operated by the DoD: Reserve Retirement <---LINK
"The third category we shall call- Years of Service for Retired Pay Percentage Multiple. YOS for retirement percentage multiple determines the years of service for computing the retired pay multiplier. This category of years of service includes all periods of active service (counted as one point for each day) plus all points earned through qualifying reserve duty, not exceeding annual limits, divided by 360."
Good luck,
Ron
Here are some of the references I have found on the topic:
Summary
The Department of Defense (DoD) compensates Soldiers who are retired for physical disability (Title 10 USC Ch. 61). The Secretary of the Army (SA) may retire a regular component Soldier who is deemed physically unfit to perform their duties as the result of an injury incurred in the line of duty. To qualify for disability retirement, the Soldier must have completed at least 20 years of creditable service , in accordance with 10 USC 1208, or have service-connected disabilities that caused the Soldier to be unfit for duty and amount to a combined disability rating of 30 percent or more. The 20-year threshold established by 10 USC 1208 includes Reserve "equivalent duty service" (the product of the Soldier's membership and Inactive Duty Training (IDT) points divided by 360). This service is applicable to Regular Soldiers with former Reserve Service.
The AF says he same thing:
AFI36-3212
3.17.2. Permanent Disability Retirement. Applies to service members who have been found unfit, the condition is stable and permanent, and the total disability rating is 30 percent or greater or the service member has 20 years or more service computed under 10 U.S.C. § 1208 regardless of the combined compensable disability rating.
Title 10 U.S.C. § 1208
(a)For the purposes of this chapter, a member of a regular component shall be credited with the service described in paragraph (1) or that described in paragraph (2), whichever is greater:
(1)The service that he is considered to have for the purpose of separation, discharge, or retirement for length of service.
(2) The sum of—
(A) his active service as a member of the armed forces, a nurse, a reserve nurse, a contract surgeon, a contract dental surgeon, or an acting dental surgeon;
(B) his active service as a member of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or the Public Health Service; and
(C) his service while participating in exercises or performing duties under sections 502, 503, 504, and 505 of title 32.
Title 32
32 U.S. Code § 502 - Required drills and field exercises
32 U.S. Code § 503 - Participation in field exercises
32 U.S. Code § 504 - National Guard schools and small arms competitions
32 U.S. Code § 505 - Army and Air Force schools and field exercises
ANGI36-2001
3.2. Inactive Duty Training (IDT). IDT consists of attendance at regularly scheduled drills, additional IDT periods, and voluntary IDT. IDT provides individual or unit readiness training to ANG members. 32 U.S. Code § 502, 37 U.S. Code § 206(e), DoDI 1215.06 and DoDI 1215.13 establish basic policies and governing authority for conducting IDT. IAW 37 USC Section 206 (d) (1-2) IDT may not be used for correspondence courses, to include electronic-based distributed learning.
DODI 1215.06
a. IDT. IDT consists of attendance at regularly scheduled unit training periods (regularly scheduled drills), additional IDT periods, and voluntary IDT.
From the 15 year Pre-retirement Brief (Ohio)
1405 Time – IDT points earned while a member of the Reserve Component used to increase the percentage of base pay multiplier of a Regular retirement.
• Used to determine Non-regular retirement eligibility
• For regular retirement the points count AFTER acquiring 20 years of active service
• May be used to reach 20 years of active service for disability retirements.
• Points cannot exceed 365/366 points total per retirement year
Summary
The Department of Defense (DoD) compensates Soldiers who are retired for physical disability (Title 10 USC Ch. 61). The Secretary of the Army (SA) may retire a regular component Soldier who is deemed physically unfit to perform their duties as the result of an injury incurred in the line of duty. To qualify for disability retirement, the Soldier must have completed at least 20 years of creditable service , in accordance with 10 USC 1208, or have service-connected disabilities that caused the Soldier to be unfit for duty and amount to a combined disability rating of 30 percent or more. The 20-year threshold established by 10 USC 1208 includes Reserve "equivalent duty service" (the product of the Soldier's membership and Inactive Duty Training (IDT) points divided by 360). This service is applicable to Regular Soldiers with former Reserve Service.
The AF says he same thing:
AFI36-3212
3.17.2. Permanent Disability Retirement. Applies to service members who have been found unfit, the condition is stable and permanent, and the total disability rating is 30 percent or greater or the service member has 20 years or more service computed under 10 U.S.C. § 1208 regardless of the combined compensable disability rating.
Title 10 U.S.C. § 1208
(a)For the purposes of this chapter, a member of a regular component shall be credited with the service described in paragraph (1) or that described in paragraph (2), whichever is greater:
(1)The service that he is considered to have for the purpose of separation, discharge, or retirement for length of service.
(2) The sum of—
(A) his active service as a member of the armed forces, a nurse, a reserve nurse, a contract surgeon, a contract dental surgeon, or an acting dental surgeon;
(B) his active service as a member of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or the Public Health Service; and
(C) his service while participating in exercises or performing duties under sections 502, 503, 504, and 505 of title 32.
Title 32
32 U.S. Code § 502 - Required drills and field exercises
32 U.S. Code § 503 - Participation in field exercises
32 U.S. Code § 504 - National Guard schools and small arms competitions
32 U.S. Code § 505 - Army and Air Force schools and field exercises
ANGI36-2001
3.2. Inactive Duty Training (IDT). IDT consists of attendance at regularly scheduled drills, additional IDT periods, and voluntary IDT. IDT provides individual or unit readiness training to ANG members. 32 U.S. Code § 502, 37 U.S. Code § 206(e), DoDI 1215.06 and DoDI 1215.13 establish basic policies and governing authority for conducting IDT. IAW 37 USC Section 206 (d) (1-2) IDT may not be used for correspondence courses, to include electronic-based distributed learning.
DODI 1215.06
a. IDT. IDT consists of attendance at regularly scheduled unit training periods (regularly scheduled drills), additional IDT periods, and voluntary IDT.
From the 15 year Pre-retirement Brief (Ohio)
1405 Time – IDT points earned while a member of the Reserve Component used to increase the percentage of base pay multiplier of a Regular retirement.
• Used to determine Non-regular retirement eligibility
• For regular retirement the points count AFTER acquiring 20 years of active service
• May be used to reach 20 years of active service for disability retirements.
• Points cannot exceed 365/366 points total per retirement year
Hello @Yukon777
Good information; thank you for posting it.
Some odds and ends:
1. A reserve/NG retirement requires "20 Good Years" and meeting the reserve/NG age requirement. A member is generally not eligible for Reserve (non-regular) retired pay until they reach age 60. However, any member of the Ready Reserve who is recalled to active duty or, in response to a national emergency, is called to certain active service after January 28, 2008, shall have the age 60 requirement reduced by 3 months for each cumulative period of 90 days so performed in any fiscal year after that date.
2.
3. Since 7200 points are NOT required for a reserve/NG retirement, I infer he was speaking about qualifying for a regular retirement and immediate payment of retired pay without waiting to attain the reserve/NG retirement age.
4. There are several cases ("proof") on the forum of reserve/NG retirement (and immediate payment of retired pay/CRDP) without meeting the age requirement since they had 7200 or more points, I still have never seen a regulation/law that precisely and clearly prescribes 7200 points as meeting that threshold. On the other hand, 7200/360 = 20 years.
Ron
Good information; thank you for posting it.
Some odds and ends:
1. A reserve/NG retirement requires "20 Good Years" and meeting the reserve/NG age requirement. A member is generally not eligible for Reserve (non-regular) retired pay until they reach age 60. However, any member of the Ready Reserve who is recalled to active duty or, in response to a national emergency, is called to certain active service after January 28, 2008, shall have the age 60 requirement reduced by 3 months for each cumulative period of 90 days so performed in any fiscal year after that date.
2.
JATID mentioned:
"I'm new to this. I am 18y 3m in on AD (AGR) service (24 total), an IRILO has started for the second time, trying to make it to 20 AD yrs. My question is it 7200 or 7300 points required to retire (Where can I find this in regulations)?"3. Since 7200 points are NOT required for a reserve/NG retirement, I infer he was speaking about qualifying for a regular retirement and immediate payment of retired pay without waiting to attain the reserve/NG retirement age.
4. There are several cases ("proof") on the forum of reserve/NG retirement (and immediate payment of retired pay/CRDP) without meeting the age requirement since they had 7200 or more points, I still have never seen a regulation/law that precisely and clearly prescribes 7200 points as meeting that threshold. On the other hand, 7200/360 = 20 years.
Ron
10 USC 12733 states:
For the purpose of computing the retired pay of a person under this chapter, the person’s years of service and any fraction of such a year are computed by dividing 360 into the sum of the following:
(1) The person’s days of active service.
(2) The person’s days of full-time service under sections 316, 502, 503, 504, and 505 of title 32 while performing annual training duty or while attending a prescribed course of instruction at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned.
(3) One day for each point credited to the person under clause (B), (C), or (D) of section 12732(a)(2) of this title.
They make it more difficult than it should be. For me to qualify for an immediate AD retirement (regular retirement not medical) I need close to 5 more years TAFMS time to get me to 20 years, with that I will just short of 40 years of total military service. My inactive duty time would add a few additional years to the 20 for the calculation of retired pay. I’m glad they let you use total points toward retirement as you work through the duty DES process.
Im still trying to wrap my head around whether or not I will be eligible for CDRP if IDT is used to put me over the 20 years like they can in the medical retirement process. I’ve read several posts on the topic, on this form, and it seems some get it and some don’t. I’m guessing if you polled the people who make the determination the variety in responses would be similar to what you find on this site. I haven’t had a chance to dig into the rules to see what they say on the topic, you would think the people who are charged with making the decision would know but if I’ve learned anything over the last 35 years it’s that they probably don’t.
Im still trying to wrap my head around whether or not I will be eligible for CDRP if IDT is used to put me over the 20 years like they can in the medical retirement process. I’ve read several posts on the topic, on this form, and it seems some get it and some don’t. I’m guessing if you polled the people who make the determination the variety in responses would be similar to what you find on this site. I haven’t had a chance to dig into the rules to see what they say on the topic, you would think the people who are charged with making the decision would know but if I’ve learned anything over the last 35 years it’s that they probably don’t.