So I was told out of no where today that I was being taken off the promotion list because I do not have a current APFT or weapons qual. Since I can not do either do to conditions, let alone my profile is there any way I can fight this? I would really like to still be on that list when my 199 comes back and I am finally done with all of this.
AR 600-8-19, need help please.
- Thread starter EOD09
- Start date
A temporary profile can put a hold on a lot of different things. You need to go to your primary care and have them remove that profile from your AKO or add a new one that shows you have ones across-the-board
My Unit knows I have a permanent profile stopping me from doing those events. I did find this though in AR 600-8-19:
1-32. Physical profiles resulting from combat-related operations
The following provisions supplement existing semicentralized policies for all Soldiers. These provisions apply to Soldiers with physical profiles resulting from combat-related operations as defined in DODI 1332.38. Combat related covers injuries and diseases attributable to the special dangers associated with armed conflict or the preparation or training for armed conflict. The injuries or diseases must be found to be in the line of duty under the provisions of AR 600-8-4 before application of the following:
1-32. Physical profiles resulting from combat-related operations
The following provisions supplement existing semicentralized policies for all Soldiers. These provisions apply to Soldiers with physical profiles resulting from combat-related operations as defined in DODI 1332.38. Combat related covers injuries and diseases attributable to the special dangers associated with armed conflict or the preparation or training for armed conflict. The injuries or diseases must be found to be in the line of duty under the provisions of AR 600-8-4 before application of the following:
- Soldiers who are unable to qualify with a weapon due to a physical profile will use their last weapons qualification score until the Soldier is medically cleared to fire for qualification. If the Soldier’s last qualifying score was a failing score, that Soldier (regardless of primary weapon assigned) will be granted a minimum qualifying score of 26 hits (M16 scale-DA Form 5790-R(Record Firing Scorecard-Alternate Course)).
- Soldiers who are unable to take an aerobic or alternate APFT event due to a permanent physical profile will use their last APFT score until the Soldier is medically cleared to take the APFT. If the Soldier’s last score was a failing score, that Soldier will be granted a minimum qualifying score of 60 points for each APFT event.
- Temporary physical profiles and APFT.
- AA, AGR, and TPU Soldiers with a temporary profile that prohibit taking one or more events of the APFT will use their current APFT score provided it is not more than 2 years old at the time of the promotion point computation.
- IRR Soldiers with a temporary profile that prohibit taking one or more events of the APFT will use their current APFT score provided it is not more than 3 years old at the time of the promotion point computation.
They don't have to give you a go, they just put in your last taken one. If I may ask, what is the profile for, and what do you have in you PULHES?
Your S1 should change the date, you keep the same score. Also, have your CDR sign
A memo stating the new datefor the update and that your are currently in the men/pen process.
A memo stating the new datefor the update and that your are currently in the men/pen process.
* meb / peb
If you have a permanent profile, this should not stop you from anything. however if thepermanent profile has a three in it then you should be in a medical Board
Is this the AR I need to use to have the CDR sign the memo? My 1SG is the one who pulled my P and he told me he would have to find it in the "regs" saying I could keep it without doing those events, and because I am in the MEB.
Your profile should have been included with packet. A recent message came out saying that promo boards cannot discriminate selection for promotion for Soldiers undergoing MEB/PEB. I don't have it with me---That's subjective-don't you think? They can put messages out all they want. If other Soldiers are selecting for promo, you know that being medically boarded is going to be a factor regardless. Don't think they are going to promote someone who can't do basic Soldiering skills--IMO
If your profile precludes you from doing all events of the APFT and doing a weapons qual, they should not hold that against you. Obviously you are going through IDES, so I would inform them that A Soldier is to remain on the PPRL if they are on there. My brain is not working at this moment, so I cannot think of the regs (And I am a 42a(sad, right?)). Check the ctrl f in the promotion reg for keywords for IDES. You're not flagged, are you? Ht/Wt good?
Here you go. AR 600-8-19
Section IX
Task: Processing Removal from Recommended List
3–24. Rules
a. Soldier must be informed of removal action, in writing.
b. Promotion packets of Soldiers who are removed from a recommended list will be retained in the local PROM
files for 2 years and in the RHA 3 years.
c. Soldier will be informed through normal channels of removal action, in writing, no later than 5 duty days after
removal.
d. Once the Soldier is removed the action is final.
e. Soldiers will be immediately removed from a recommended list for all conditions listed in table 3–10, below.
f. The following adverse actions (table 3–10, code D, below) require removal of a Soldier from a recommended list:
(1) Conviction by court-martial, including summary court-martial.
(2) Nonjudicial punishment imposed under provision of Article 15, UCMJ (not including summarized proceedings),
regardless of whether the punishment is suspended.
(3) Initiation of administrative separation proceedings under provisions of AR 635–200. Soldiers undergoing medical
processing under provisions of AR 635–40 will remain on the recommended list unless separated.
Section IX
Task: Processing Removal from Recommended List
3–24. Rules
a. Soldier must be informed of removal action, in writing.
b. Promotion packets of Soldiers who are removed from a recommended list will be retained in the local PROM
files for 2 years and in the RHA 3 years.
c. Soldier will be informed through normal channels of removal action, in writing, no later than 5 duty days after
removal.
d. Once the Soldier is removed the action is final.
e. Soldiers will be immediately removed from a recommended list for all conditions listed in table 3–10, below.
f. The following adverse actions (table 3–10, code D, below) require removal of a Soldier from a recommended list:
(1) Conviction by court-martial, including summary court-martial.
(2) Nonjudicial punishment imposed under provision of Article 15, UCMJ (not including summarized proceedings),
regardless of whether the punishment is suspended.
(3) Initiation of administrative separation proceedings under provisions of AR 635–200. Soldiers undergoing medical
processing under provisions of AR 635–40 will remain on the recommended list unless separated.
I am not flagged. I was removed from the list and given a written counseling stating I was removed because of no APFT or weapons qual yesterday. I have shown the regs to my 1SG and he said we would fix it coming back from the Thanksgiving weekend. I am worried since they removed me already can that be reversed since that is supposed to be final, even though they messed up?
If it can be botched, it can be fixed whether leadership likes it or not. You were taken off yesterday, you should have been put back today. Many times I have seen where leadership won't fix something because they have to admit they messed something up and have to take blame for the action and be reprimanded twice - for the wrong negative action and for not knowing or consulting applicable regulations. If they won't fix it, wrap the all-knowing reg around you and go see IG, remembering to be respectful to your leaders (as always, like it or not). Like saying "I believe a member of my leadership has made a mistake involving me. Would you please advise me?" Tell your story, back it up with regs. Have all your evidence in a nice file, notes, everything, all in consecutive order matching what you have to say. If you go in with a chip on your shoulder and flustered, it'll be obvious and you'll get the eye roll. 1sg was quick to throw you under the bus...without you knowing until you got the counseling statement. Equal treatment up and down the chain, you be the one who shows the most respect.
Jeez I'm vindictive! I just can't stand it when soldiers are poorly lead or wrongfully treated.
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Jeez I'm vindictive! I just can't stand it when soldiers are poorly lead or wrongfully treated.
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If he doesn't fix it next week, call the Ombudsman. This is what they are there for. If you're not active duty, call the nearest AD post for their Ombudsman. They will either help you, or get you in contact with the right person who can.
Being flagged has nothing to do with it. If you are in the MEB, they can't have you removed from the list for anything other than misconduct. Your old APFT is supposed to be used if you have a profile against taking a PT test. Show him what I showed you, and see if it works. If not, get assistance. The problem with units at Battalion and below is they have the ability to make changes even if they interpreted something wrong. In this case they did, and need to be shown they were wrong.
Joe