Advice Needed: IPEB Fit For Duty (Bipolar Disorder)

S

servicemember

PEB Forum Regular Member
Last week, I got the results back from the PEB, fit for duty, and was recomended that my profile gets reevaluated so I can deploy to a mature theater. 3 months ago, that's what I was fighting for. But as of lately, I haven't been doing too well alone. Even checked myself into the ER 3 weeks ago for suicidal thoughts. The bipolar disorder is taking over my life, cycling constantly, to a point where I feel as if I am a pathological liar to myself, feeling strong about one thing one moment and feeling the complete oppisite the next moment... When I'm at work or TDY though, I'm fine. So I guess the advice I'm asking for is, am I fooling myself to think that everything will be fine to go along with the fit for duty prognosis, and that a deployment environment will change everything by eliminating the alone times...

In lieu of the fit for duty, my chain of command intends to PCS me to a unit in which my NCOIC has some connections at and feels I will excel in a unit oriented more to the fight rather than a Brigade HQ. I am a Commo guy filling the role as an IT guy, and my career can be summarized best in a quote told to me earlier this week by my OIC. "You are by far the best worker I've ever had, smarter and more drive than anybody I've seen. But you rank up there with some of the worst soldiers I've ever had. From 0600 to 1700 you are flawless, but from 1701 to 0559 you are a completely diferint person."

That being said, I have a little over 2 years TIS, and have been in some trouble for underage drinking and a failed piss test for pot which was basicly my way to deal with depression-- I know not smart-- 2 article 15's. Currently those issues have been under control. My pride yearns for a deployment, but my soul just wants to go home and be with friends. Nearly everyday for the past couple of months, I have thought of suicide, havent acted too much upon other than the occasional cutting which I always regret after for the fact I have to constantly wear long sleeves.

The way I see it is I have 2 options: 1) Drive on, man up and finish off my contract like a solider. 2) Appeal the findings and pretty much throw in the towel on my military career.

Any advice is greatly appreciated, as well as complete honesty.

-- Thank You!
 
Hello :) I also have bipolar disorder and am awaiting my results from the IPEB at the moment al though they should be back by the end of this month (hopefully the holidays doesn't slow everything down too much) Good for you on going to the ER when you felt those thoughts taking over. It takes a lot of courage to walk in and tell doctors you are spinning out of control and need help.

I think only you can decide whether to stay in or work on getting out but personally for me I am getting out. I am very much like you in the fact that i popped positive for pot once about 4 months ago for depression associated with rape that happened to be on this base. They aren't doing anything about it as far as i know but i regret that every day and hope it doesn't mess up my MEB. I also preform really well at work (I do government contracts) and have been told that my work is superior to those that have been in contracting for years and i have only been out of tech school for 8 months. But its the after duty time that i have the most trouble with as well. After the rape i went out and got trashed the next night when i was supposed to be on quearters (oops) and I just have a hard time managing everything especially when manic. I hope you are telling your psych about the cutting and constant suicidal thoughts so they can tweak your medication to help you deal with it all. Not telling anyone won't help you feel better. As far as deployment that is a choice only you can make also but be very careful. If you have suicidal thoughts, being issued a weopon can pose a high risk to yourself and others. Also being away from family and friends and whatever support you have for an extended period of time may not make you feel any better but probably worse. Good luck in whatever you decide and keep us posted.
 
Interesting... I was put on TDRL in October at 30% for Bipolar Disorder (I feel I should have been 50% but didn't have enought "fight" left in me, so I just took it and ran). I was under the impression that you could not serve in the military with a "Bipolar" diagnosis due to the medicatoins that typically go along with such a diagnosis and the instability of the disease.... Are you on medications? Mood stabilizers? Anti-psychotics? I'm very surprised you were found fit! What branch of servivce are you? (sounds like Army) I was Air Force... Please keep us posted because I'm very interested in how your situation ends! mls
 
Heyy, thanks for the interest in my case...

Here's a quick example of how I "fool" myself. Last night, I stayed up all night (dosed off for 15 minutes, one of those things where I'm tired but know the sooner I go to sleep, the sooner I have to get out of bed and start another day) and was adament last night that at this mornings psychologist appointment I was going to be honest and appeal the IPEB decision and get out already. Buuut this morning we had a motivational run, and now I'm doubting myself again because I love that kind of hooah stuff--mind you we don't do anything too hooah very often. On a side note, I might get in trouble today because Friday night I called an NCO asking for a ride home from the clubs, but he was too doped up from an injury that happened earlier in the day home from the ER. Apparently he called another NCO and I got one of those, "What happened Friday night?" ordeal and got the feeling it wasn't just going to stay at her level. Basicaly I walked home 15 miles in 10 degree weather because I went out with out my cell phone, and just my ID and got seperated from the people I went out with-- we'll see how this one works out; Like I saide previously, I'm always getting in trouble for stupid shit.

Anyways enough ranting, I am on medications. Lamictal, Klonopin, Seroqual, Adderall and Abilify. Although, I rarely take the seroqual, run the risk of not waking up for PT if I take it. To clearify littlehippie, I don't think it was so much my courage that landed me in the ER. I had chest surgery, and while recovering in the hospital bed, on diladud and percocets, my NCOIC came and to check on me, and I admitted to him things that were going on, pretty much from pain killer motivation, and he directed me to check in upon release. I've been trying to fight through this and have been on 3 TDY missions, thus cancelling my psychology appointments to do so, and be "normal." -- Obviously wasn't paying for it so much then but am now.

My DA 199 states the following:

Evaluated for: Bipolar Disorder

Fit For Duty.

Review of the records provides insufficient evidence that you have physical impairments that preclude the satisfactory performance of duty by a soldier of your rank and primary specialty. Accordingly, you are found fit for duty under the provisons of AR 635-40, para 3-1.

In making this decision, the board has carefully reviewed the medical data and other facts presented and has given full consideration to the soldiers desires as well as the reccommendations of the chain-of-command. It is also noted that: comnmand statement indicates soldier is fully capable of successful performance in primary specialty and current duty position. no physical impairments-etc...

In spite of profile restrictions, fit call was made because Bipolar Disorder manifesting in 2008 with mood instability, successfuly treated with medication and specialty follow up. The commander's performance and functional statement notes that the soldier is satisfactorily performing duties in his MOS, is in an appropiate position for his grade/mos and has effictive work relationships. The soldier is also completing inline undergraduate courses. (actually I haven't done any classes since fall of 2008, when bipolar manifested, I quit.) PVT "Service Member" is therefore determined to be fit for duties in the United States Army.

It appears that the profile issued to the soldier may be overly restrictive when compared to the soldiers condition as depicted in documentation in the case file. The board recommends a review and update. Soldier should be deployed to a mature theater.

--Torn between :(--
 
I too went through a time of sever depression and even cutting myself. It was a way to take the mental and emotional pain and change it to a pain that I had control over. I too asked for help and checked myself in for suiciadl ideations. Good for you for being stron enough to ask for help. You need to continue to be strong and constantly seek help. How good of a support structure do you have? Who can you talk to. If you get to that point to where you are feeling suicidal, get on the phone and talk to someone, anyone.

I'm not sure that a deployment would be the best idea though. It's a very stressful enviornment and you will be a long way from your support structure. I'm not saying you shouldn't but weigh the options carefully. First priority, imho, is work on getting stablized where the lows aren't so low. Anyway, continue to be strong and either way, let us know what you decide.
 
Alright, so I just left my mental health appointment and decided to put it all on the line, and if the doctors still deem me fit then I guess it's meant to be. I saw I had another option of appealing, to attach a written appeal and have it reviewed by HQ, USAPDA. I'm not too sure how that process works or even the success rates, but the way I see it is, it would be like appealing under the radar, and if still found fit from that I can still continue my military service like nothing happened, verse doing a formal appeal and having my chain of command dissapointed in me. Anybody have any experiences with this? I haven't decided for sure if this is the route I'm going to take being that I still have to go to JAG this week and seek legal council prior to making any decisions.
 
Wow... I just can't get over that you were deemed fit for duty! Bipolar disorder is a life-long illness... yes we may go into "remission" and have extended periods of complete "normalcy" but it's also inevitable that you will eventually require treatment again, medication adjustments, etc... Medications need consistent monitoring... I CAN NOT BELIEVE that they suggested you be deployed!!! Unbelievable! What a stress trigger that would be! I doubt they would be able to get their hands on the kinds of medication you would require if you went manic or depressive in a forward location...
Keep us posted! Very interesting stuff!!
 
Update:

I saw JAG today and my attorney seemed pretty confident he could get me out. He reccomends doing a Formal, which I'm fine with, so think I'm just going to go along with that.

As for my unit life, I'm getting a summarized Article 15 tom or next week, based off of a failure to follow a plan of action counseling statement for letting my Drivers Licence expire. I was 20 minutes late to check in.-- Whatever, it is what it is. Now when my 1SG asked me about my MEB status and I said I have til the 19th to decide if I want to appeal or not and haven't yet made a decision, I got lectured pretty hard and a few things stood out that I really didn't appreciate. "Most people in the military struggle from depression and could be diagnosed with Bipolar, but they know if they say anything they'll get the boot, so they just live with it." -- I mean really 1SG, do these people contemplate killing themselves every night, do they stay up for 1 to 2 nights in a row and cycle rapidly?-- I didn't say that but thought it. Also, I believe think they don't support the diagnosis yet they explain my actions as it and feel because I'm very intelligent that I should know how to drive on. "Servicemember, we talked a few months ago, you said that you were fine and weren't too sure if the diagnosis was correct; you really wanted to stay and your name was always coming up for great things, now all of a sudden its service member this, servicemeber that for bad things and things aren't going your way so you want out?!" -- Again didn't say anything but thats bipolar! Im fine when im not cycling!

I'm worried that if I tell them I want to appeal it that they're going to take it personally and try to chapter me or harshen the article 15... :(

I just want to alleviate this stupid stress!
 
servicemember said:
The way I see it is I have 2 options: 1) Drive on, man up and finish off my contract like a solider. 2) Appeal the findings and pretty much throw in the towel on my military career.
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servicemember,

I would disagree with framing the issue this way. You have an illness. The MEB felt that your conditions failed retention standards and now you are at the part of the process that will determine fitness and eligibility for benefits. I understand very well the culture that says that you can "suck it up and drive on." But, that decision is for the Secretary of the Army to make based on the recommendation of the PEB. Appealing a decision that you think is incorrect is not "throwing in the towel" and it is not "giving up." You have a condition that can be very serious and limit you greatly. Some people respond well to treatment and go on to function well. Others cannot. I just mention all of this so that you do not feel like you are doing something shady or not in accordance with Army Values.

servicemember said:
Update:

I saw JAG today and my attorney seemed pretty confident he could get me out. He reccomends doing a Formal, which I'm fine with, so think I'm just going to go along with that.
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Did you see a Legal Assistance attorney or an MEB Outreach attorney? From what you have said, I think the advice is sound, but I don't know all of the facts of your case. Just be aware that very few JAGs have training or experience with PEBs.

As for my unit life, I'm getting a summarized Article 15 tom or next week, based off of a failure to follow a plan of action counseling statement for letting my Drivers Licence expire. I was 20 minutes late to check in.-- Whatever, it is what it is. Now when my 1SG asked me about my MEB status and I said I have til the 19th to decide if I want to appeal or not and haven't yet made a decision, I got lectured pretty hard and a few things stood out that I really didn't appreciate. "Most people in the military struggle from depression and could be diagnosed with Bipolar, but they know if they say anything they'll get the boot, so they just live with it." -- I mean really 1SG, do these people contemplate killing themselves every night, do they stay up for 1 to 2 nights in a row and cycle rapidly?-- I didn't say that but thought it. Also, I believe think they don't support the diagnosis yet they explain my actions as it and feel because I'm very intelligent that I should know how to drive on. "Servicemember, we talked a few months ago, you said that you were fine and weren't too sure if the diagnosis was correct; you really wanted to stay and your name was always coming up for great things, now all of a sudden its service member this, servicemeber that for bad things and things aren't going your way so you want out?!" -- Again didn't say anything but thats bipolar! Im fine when im not cycling!

I'm worried that if I tell them I want to appeal it that they're going to take it personally and try to chapter me or harshen the article 15... :(

I just want to alleviate this stupid stress!
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First off, this sounds like pure BS! Violating a counseling statement is not a violation of any article of the UCMJ. Being late by 20 minutes....well, technically it could be a violation, but would hardly warrant this action (and there are likely many viable defenses). However, I want to point out a few things. At a summarized, your maximum punishment is any combination of a. extra duty for 14 days, b. restriction for 14 days, and/or c. oral reprimand or admonition. As a former Army prosecutor, I can tell you that it is highly likely that the prosecutor recommended not doing anything higher than this level of punishment because of the legal problems/weaknesses in the charges. Most attorneys would tell you that given the low level of possible punishment versus the risk of worse punishment at a Court-Martial, it is wise to accept the punishment. This is a decision that you should make after considering all the factors and I can't offer any advice on this. One other potential issue, though, is that they are trying to build a case for a Chapter. I have dealt with this many times (you can look at my recent post in the Admin Separations forum for an article to the Washington Times where I am representing a former Soldier with PTSD who was improperly separated for a pattern of misconduct). Flat out, it makes my blood boil. If they try to separate you, let me know.

I hope all goes well for you. Best of luck.
 
Jason,

I can't thank you enough for your advice. You read through other posts and hear of this "Infamous Jason" and can only hope he'll take an interest on your case lol.

Anyways, the summarized Article 15 is for (1) failure to obey a lawful order (i.e. not checking in at staff duty change over at 0900) and (2) Failure to report at 0900. 14 and 14, too easy, don't agree, but I'm trying to pick my battles.

By JAG I meant the MEB outreach Council. The attorney seemed very sharp, with plans to ask my command some more specific questions rather than a standard commanders performance letter.

I plan on having a talk with my 1SG tomorrow and be up front with her about the issues I've been having as of lately, and telling her straight up that I do plan on appealing, based on what my family, the medical professionals and I feel is best for me in the long run. And somewhere in there let her know its not the benefits that Im after, merely an honorable discharge, access to the medication I'm currently taking and the GI Bill. But as far as percentages goes, I'm not interested, my main concern is limiting the stressors that enable such sessions. -- and hopefully I can gain her support, prior to her becoming 1SG last Monday, we had a great relationship developed on many TDY trips, yet my concern now is that she is feeling that I led her on with how Hooah I act and say I want to be, yet she fails to understand those periods come and go.

I'll keep this page updated on anything new that comes along, and again to everybody who's contributed their input that have given me that reassurance to do what's best, Thank You!
 
Hey guys,
Just an update on how I'm doing... I had just got off of extra duty, 1 FTR for checking in late for a plan of action based on a counseling statement for a nonmilitary matter. Anyways, the day I finished I slept through PT due to averaging 2 hours of sleep a night, and seroqual. From there basicly everything went down hill and the depressive state that I was in had evolved into cutting and severe suicidal thoughts to the point where I admitted myself into a mental hospital for a week. My medications were straightened out there, and it was by far the best week I've had in a year, without any military stress and being able to feel "normal." I'm still waiting on my appeal date and really hope I am found unfit for duty under any circumstance or else I fear I'll end up another dissapointment to the army by taking my own life or doing something which is out of line of a military manner...

-- Depressed Service Member...
 
I'm glad you got help and they adjusted your meds. Just remember though, that life will continue after the military, no matter what they decide, fit or unfit. I know it can be hard to realize though. I had a hard getting past that same point (that I could be out of the military in as little as 4 months) too. Just keep in mind that being in the military does not define who you are, it is merely a title. I hope all is well and take care.
 
Wow, Dubber that last phrase was very heartfelt, "Just keep in mind that being in the military does not define who you are, it is merely a title." -- Thank You!
 
servicemember,

Keep your head up! If you are having thoughts where you might hurt yourself, get help now! You and your health are too important to let anything drag you down. You have an illness and if you don't get the care you need, bad things can happen. So, I urge you to seek some more help. You want to fight for the best outcome for you and though things sound like they are tough right now, this will pass. If you keep your health in mind and take care of yourself, I would say that in a few years you can look back on all the BS that you are going through with your chain of command and the ART 15s and it will all be just a memory.

Hope all goes well and keep your spirits up. You are not alone.
 
Jason,

Thanks again for your support. Although my unit is currently hostile with my situation, they have agreed to send me to WTU this time around while I'm waiting for the Formal Appeal date, and my stress levels today have been at an all time low, which of course feels great.

My only concern now is, since previosly, I was found fit for duty and since have compiled a lot of evidence supporting the diagnosis and my lack of performance fitness, that it could be possibly unjustly be found EPTS. Even though my psych summary and NARSUM both say EPTS: NO.
 
*** UPDATE***

Yesterday, I turned all my mental health records as well as the records from my recent psychiatric care stay. The last psychologist and Psychiatrist care stay suggested that I had a second disorder, panic disorder-- based upon the symptons and my panic attacks. My military lawyer informs me most likely we will get back a 10% rating, but I really want 30% mainly so I won't have too much of a problem continuing my medication, especially with how health care is these days. Now, a few things stick out here:

1) My conditions based on the VASRD ratings are pretty much right at 50%, so why is 30z5 a fight? Should I sit down with my psychiatrist next week and discuss this with her in regards to their oppinion on where my condition would be related?

2) My new commanders performance letter came back, after 2 weeks of continiously asking and he left a lot of the questions blank expect he changed two things which were diferint from last time.

He reccomended that I am not retained and he noted that my condition interferes with my military duty. Also, not to sure on how this matters but he also noted that I was previously held a higher rank, PFC which in 2 and a half years of service I've never held currently a PV2 lol I know it's sad.

My lawyer said he was going to try and send something up shortly before my formal date which is 01 March 2010.


Now I know this isn't too related to my case but last night I finaly had the urge to write a little again, so I thought I'd share...



"You know for the longest time, whenever I would see her, even after we weren't together anymore, she would tell me that she missed me. And I would look into her eyes, and I knew she meant it. And then one day she just stopped saying it and I knew, she was gone."

Weather you know it or not, in every day lies hope. Even if you've lived a lifetime of nothing but high expectations and let downs, at the end of the day nobody can take away your ability to hope.

It's been way too long since, I sat down and actually wrote. It used to be one of the most therapeutic exercises I could do for myself, but somewhere in this last year I stopped. From time to time I'd hope that I would have the energy to write again and well I'm finally here.

Here, or there? I couldn't tell you if I wanted to. At this point, reality is merely a glimmer of hope and life is a struggle. In more confusing terms, "I am who I am, but who I am is not who I am."

I know I'm not living the healthiest of lifestyles, but I'm living off of hope, not reality. And when people don't realize this and try to bring me back to reality, it really jerks my chain. I know they're only trying to help, but as mentioned earlier reality is hope rather than life. Why? Because when I realize my life isn't a reality and a T.V. show is more easily accepted than the life of my own, I will continue to live in a glimmer of hope rather than reality.

Let's put my current reality into perspective if you don't know already. This weekend I intend on taking $2,000.00 to the casino. I don't want just $2,000.00 I want $20,000.00. While $2,000.00 can help me tremendously right now, to me it serves as responsibility rather than an opportunity. I understand how stupid this sounds, but until I go back to the reality I should be living in, I will continue to live in a reality which merely consists of hope.

"I miss you."
 
Results are in. PDRL 30%... I'll fill y'all in with my DA 199 tomorrow in case anybody is curious to the details on how the findings work. Only one problem, my unit is pissed that I'm being retired and are trying to hammer me article 15 wise any way possible to take my rank. This time for sleeping in and being lat, but honestly it's the flipping meds they keep giving me and I stayed up all night for a room inspection the following day errr... but it is what it is and I can't believe I got PDRL over TDRL.
 
servicemember,

That is great news, Congratulations on your retirement.

A couple of points on the Article 15 issue. First, if reduced, I think they will have to conduct a grade determination review at HRC before retiring you at a lower grade...this may work to your advantage because they may not have time to do this/or not be inclined to do so, and even if they do you may end up retired at the higher grade, anyway...also note that, pissed though they may be, your disability compensation will be determined not by your final pay, but by the average of the high 36 months of base pay....so, it seems unlikely that any Art. 15 will matter, money wise.

You can let us know how things go and any questions. It seems pretty crappy the way they are treating you...one thing to consider (after talking to a Trial Defense Service JAG attorney) is your option to demand a trial by court martial. This is always a risk, but, if the charges are bogus it is worth considering challenging; the Convening Authority would likely also weigh the value of a Court-Martial against a wounded warrior for a minor charge, and it seems highly unlikely that, in the worst case scenario there was a conviction, that the sentence would be substantial. Again, not something to do lightly, but it is an option that you can explore with your JAG.
 
Servicemember,

I would suggest that you make an appointment to see ADC (Area Defense Council) as soon as possible--at least that is what they are called in the AF. If anything else, they are free, confidential, and can offer suggestions. I don't know your situation....but good luck....as Jason said, the pay is based on high-3 (average last 36 months) so really, even if you were reduced in rank it is more just what is "on your retirement ID card" than anything else.

So I'm wondering why your unit is even bothering...it seems spiteful and silly just to make an "example" of you if it does YOU no good because you're leaving the military anyway. Is this REALLY an appropriate SCARE tactic for the rest of the unit? Hmmmm.

I'd definently contact JAG and defend myself, but in the end keep your eyes on the goal....don't let this be a distraction to your goal of good mental health! (Coming from someone with PTSD)

Nate
 
I also kniow about the meds...being on a cocktail of them for PTSD, TBI and horrible migraines (with the inability to SLEEP)--and then with drugs sleeping too much. And if you are ever on Seroquel....I REALLY feel for you, I took that for awhile and it really konked me out!

Hang in there.

Nate
 
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