Hi all. First off I'm a SSgt, been in for ~9 years. I'm a Loadmaster (Flying Class III Physical) and I have recently been given a tentative diagnosis of ADHD (I've been on the meds for a few days and they seem to be helping but the diagnosis is not official as far as I know). I'm trying to figure out what might happen to me since a diagnosis of ADHD is a permanent DQ for all fliers as far as I have been able to find. My squadron leadership is in the loop fully and has already started the process of switching my AFSC to a 9A. Any clues as to where this is going to go (i.e. MRB, Admin Separation) from where I'm at now. I'm already about a month away from my next PT test and from what will likely be an admin discharge for PT test failure (ADHD makes it extremely hard to get the motivation to do stuff that you don't enjoy and I really don't enjoy running) and if I'm discharged for that I have to pay back a pretty hefty chunk of cash from my last re-enlistment bonus (another negative with ADHD I'm pretty much constitutionally unable to save money and not spend it on junk that piles up in my house). So the bottom line question is might I be discharged because I am DQ'd from my job because of ADHD or is it more likely that there be a push to retrain me in another career field (not really something that I would want since I joined the AF to fly and anything else after that is most likely to bore me to tears). Any advice or information anyone might have would be greatly appreciated.
ADHD and my career.
- Thread starter azazeal
- Start date
I have read somewhere that if you have a learning disability and it interfers with your duties, you will be administratively discharged. Logic would seem that this problem existed prior to service.
DoD Directive 1332.18, 25 February 1986 , entitled Separation from the Military Service by Reason of Physical Disability, contains similar, but more general, language. Personality disorders, disorders of impulse control, and learning disabilities are fundamental defects which the service member should have disclosed on applying to the service. If they were unknown to the applicant at the time, their discovery provides grounds for annulment of the agreement between the Armed Forces and the applicant. When discovered, these conditions are handled through "administrative separation" rather than retirement, disciplinary expulsion, or separation based on disability.
Since you have 9 years in and I would hope you did not know you were ADHD prior could be a different issue. Failure of your PT test and facing retraining perhaps makes me think you better find a way to make yourself able to pass that test. Go to the HAWK and get into an exercise program or join co-workers in there workout, it makes it easier.
I'm no expert and I too have a learning disability and am now on my 2nd failure. I have many medical problem preventing me from exercising but I will pass the PT test within 90 days one way or another.
DoD Directive 1332.18, 25 February 1986 , entitled Separation from the Military Service by Reason of Physical Disability, contains similar, but more general, language. Personality disorders, disorders of impulse control, and learning disabilities are fundamental defects which the service member should have disclosed on applying to the service. If they were unknown to the applicant at the time, their discovery provides grounds for annulment of the agreement between the Armed Forces and the applicant. When discovered, these conditions are handled through "administrative separation" rather than retirement, disciplinary expulsion, or separation based on disability.
Since you have 9 years in and I would hope you did not know you were ADHD prior could be a different issue. Failure of your PT test and facing retraining perhaps makes me think you better find a way to make yourself able to pass that test. Go to the HAWK and get into an exercise program or join co-workers in there workout, it makes it easier.
I'm no expert and I too have a learning disability and am now on my 2nd failure. I have many medical problem preventing me from exercising but I will pass the PT test within 90 days one way or another.
Thanks for the reply. No, I had never considered the possibility that I might have ADHD. I don't seem to have the hyperactive portion which is all I'd ever seen before so I was completely clueless. Thanks for the advice and the reference. Anyway, that DoDD says what I had been thinking but wasn't entirely sure about.
I can relate to this post so I will throw in my two sense. I have been in the Marine Corps for over 12 1/2 years, and I was placed on TDRL in Sep of 2009. I had cervical fusion on my neck, and then had a stroke month later. I still have right sided defects from the stroke (from brain damage), which combined with the neck issues led to my placement on TDRL.
Shortly after I went on the TDRL, I realized I had major concentration and interest issues. After visiting with a psychiatrist, he first attacked my anxiety/depression issues. After they were under control, he then attacked the concentration issues as they were preventing me from attending school. He diagnosed my with ADD. I will tell you, since I started taking medication for ADD (adderall), I feel more effective now than I have for a long time.
As with the issues of these "so called" learning disabilities existing prior to service. I have performed well above my peers (physically and mentaly) during my whole time in the Marine Corps. I have won honor graduate of virtually everything I have attended, to include the resident course at the staff academy, and I was a martial arts instructor.
I have had extensive conversations with my phyciatrist about my mental issues, to include the ADD. He explained to me that these issues were brought on by my tramatic experience associated with the stroke. My prior academic achievements would prove that I did not have a learning disability prior to the stroke.
Bottom line: Even if you did have ADD/ADHD prior to joing the service, I'm sure it was aggrivated by service. I would assume it is a service connected disability. I find it very difficult for them to prove that mine is not. Anyway, continue to fight for your rights, don't just accept an administrative discharge because your chain of command tells you this. Trust me... they don't understand the disability evalutation system. I'm sure jason can chime is and explain this issue a little more. Good luck!
Shortly after I went on the TDRL, I realized I had major concentration and interest issues. After visiting with a psychiatrist, he first attacked my anxiety/depression issues. After they were under control, he then attacked the concentration issues as they were preventing me from attending school. He diagnosed my with ADD. I will tell you, since I started taking medication for ADD (adderall), I feel more effective now than I have for a long time.
As with the issues of these "so called" learning disabilities existing prior to service. I have performed well above my peers (physically and mentaly) during my whole time in the Marine Corps. I have won honor graduate of virtually everything I have attended, to include the resident course at the staff academy, and I was a martial arts instructor.
I have had extensive conversations with my phyciatrist about my mental issues, to include the ADD. He explained to me that these issues were brought on by my tramatic experience associated with the stroke. My prior academic achievements would prove that I did not have a learning disability prior to the stroke.
Bottom line: Even if you did have ADD/ADHD prior to joing the service, I'm sure it was aggrivated by service. I would assume it is a service connected disability. I find it very difficult for them to prove that mine is not. Anyway, continue to fight for your rights, don't just accept an administrative discharge because your chain of command tells you this. Trust me... they don't understand the disability evalutation system. I'm sure jason can chime is and explain this issue a little more. Good luck!
I did not take in consideration that something may have caused the issue while he was on AD and he did not mention anything. What I was considering is the fact that he has been in 9 yrs so far, did the 8 yr rule apply?
I got a false diagnosis for ADHD so what I learned was:
Alot of people have ADHD in the Air Force and are fine as long as they can perform their duties accordingly. Like the post above depending on the job you may have to retrain.
ADHD from what I understand is not ratable by the VA so you would not get a percentage. Something to think about. It could be a false diagnosis.
If that's the case get tested and if you pass you are good. They have tests to find out if you have ADHD. Don't let someone just tell you have it.
Alot of people have ADHD in the Air Force and are fine as long as they can perform their duties accordingly. Like the post above depending on the job you may have to retrain.
ADHD from what I understand is not ratable by the VA so you would not get a percentage. Something to think about. It could be a false diagnosis.
If that's the case get tested and if you pass you are good. They have tests to find out if you have ADHD. Don't let someone just tell you have it.
Just a quick take on all this.
First of all, Jeep Freak-I am so impressed with your desire and attitude to pass the fit test no matter what! Seriously a "pet peeve" issue with me and I just give you so much credit. Its just awesome to see posititve determination...and to have the attitude that you WILL succeed! Helps me want to continue being positive and as good as I can be with my stuff!
As far as ADD and ADHD goes...I worked with a dr who specialized in ADD and ADHD and he was sure that its over diagnosed. There are is so much paperwork (everyone fills out forms about you, including-you fill out forms on yourself) and physical evaluation to make the correct dx.
There is a diagnosis (dx) out there called SITUATIONAL DEPRESSION/ SITUATIONAL ANXIETY. For those of us who really never had any wrong before-and now, we are hurt or have had a serious life change and basically our lives are turned UPSIDE DOWN. We just don't function like before. Guys, I can't concentrate for crap-probably has something to do with pain 24/7, working thru and MEB, , not having one good nights sleep in 3yrs. I don't have ADD or ADHD-but I can tell you that I talk in circles and I'm a wreck. Running use to take care of that...I now walk at the speed of a turtle! Helps, but its not the same as a nice run in the hills! haha. I've heard about the guys getting discharged with severance because of ADD/ADHD. It seems like Marines doc explained things really well-about his stuff pertaining specifically to the incident/injury-but that is NOT common. Guys / gals can get screwed becasue of that dx. You know, these folks : Drs -MD's PhD's and Pshychs ...are just people. They make dx based on what they read in books and are limited to what their personal experience has been thru their life, interships and where they work. Thats why its so important with serious medical and mental issues that we get 2nd and 3rd opinions. And mostly-read up and find out everything you can for yourself..work with your provider to be sure your dx is correct for you.
Just my thoughts! Hope everyone is having an excellent day!
First of all, Jeep Freak-I am so impressed with your desire and attitude to pass the fit test no matter what! Seriously a "pet peeve" issue with me and I just give you so much credit. Its just awesome to see posititve determination...and to have the attitude that you WILL succeed! Helps me want to continue being positive and as good as I can be with my stuff!
As far as ADD and ADHD goes...I worked with a dr who specialized in ADD and ADHD and he was sure that its over diagnosed. There are is so much paperwork (everyone fills out forms about you, including-you fill out forms on yourself) and physical evaluation to make the correct dx.
There is a diagnosis (dx) out there called SITUATIONAL DEPRESSION/ SITUATIONAL ANXIETY. For those of us who really never had any wrong before-and now, we are hurt or have had a serious life change and basically our lives are turned UPSIDE DOWN. We just don't function like before. Guys, I can't concentrate for crap-probably has something to do with pain 24/7, working thru and MEB, , not having one good nights sleep in 3yrs. I don't have ADD or ADHD-but I can tell you that I talk in circles and I'm a wreck. Running use to take care of that...I now walk at the speed of a turtle! Helps, but its not the same as a nice run in the hills! haha. I've heard about the guys getting discharged with severance because of ADD/ADHD. It seems like Marines doc explained things really well-about his stuff pertaining specifically to the incident/injury-but that is NOT common. Guys / gals can get screwed becasue of that dx. You know, these folks : Drs -MD's PhD's and Pshychs ...are just people. They make dx based on what they read in books and are limited to what their personal experience has been thru their life, interships and where they work. Thats why its so important with serious medical and mental issues that we get 2nd and 3rd opinions. And mostly-read up and find out everything you can for yourself..work with your provider to be sure your dx is correct for you.
Just my thoughts! Hope everyone is having an excellent day!
Jason Perry
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As for the situational depression/situational anxiety, this is another issue to be vigilant about. They would tend to look at this as not a disability (and therefore not ratable and perhaps cause for an administrative separation) if it is transient in nature and would be alleviated by your separation. "Adjustment Disorder" is where you often see this issue come up. The military regulations specifically reference this condition as unsuitable rather than unfitting...the problem and distinction is between conditions that last less than 6 months or those that persist beyond 6 months. More than 6 months, and it becomes "Chronic Adjustment Disorder"- which has a specific rating in the VASRD (which further indicates that it is indeed compensable). My position is that any "disability" (congenital/hereditary/part of a person's make up) that is worsened by military service is compensable. ADD/ADHD/Personality Disorder or whatever disability they want to call it. This is not the position of the military, but I believe that there is case law that supports my position.
The point is that you have to be aware of the potential administrative/legal consequences of certain diagnoses. This does not trump getting the care you need, deserve and are entitled to in order to get better. Just be aware!
The point is that you have to be aware of the potential administrative/legal consequences of certain diagnoses. This does not trump getting the care you need, deserve and are entitled to in order to get better. Just be aware!
Thanks Jason,
I appreciate the heads up! Diddn't know all that-but thats why you are the pro. Its like its a catch 22! I was rated with depression. I know for me-what I'm depressed or have anxiety about...You know, the sad thing is that we have to fall into a category to be rated correctly and taken care of correctly. I just had that people go on meds..to go along. Some need them I know-but sometimes we don't. I used to be a triathlete, and now I do the snail crawl-its upsetting, and I hurt all the time, but its not the end of my life. I just hate this crap...I just hate the way these rules are written and bent for some! So, just let them tell us we're depressed & then we get whats due.... OMG-when does this mess end. If we could just win the lottery and not need the benefits. Again, thanks Jason!
I appreciate the heads up! Diddn't know all that-but thats why you are the pro. Its like its a catch 22! I was rated with depression. I know for me-what I'm depressed or have anxiety about...You know, the sad thing is that we have to fall into a category to be rated correctly and taken care of correctly. I just had that people go on meds..to go along. Some need them I know-but sometimes we don't. I used to be a triathlete, and now I do the snail crawl-its upsetting, and I hurt all the time, but its not the end of my life. I just hate this crap...I just hate the way these rules are written and bent for some! So, just let them tell us we're depressed & then we get whats due.... OMG-when does this mess end. If we could just win the lottery and not need the benefits. Again, thanks Jason!
You guys (and girls) have really educated me on this subject... and I appreciate that. I will make sure I keep all this advice in mind as I continue my effort to return to duty. I definately agree with chinook in the over diagnosis of ADD/ADHD; it's easy to blame concentration/attention issues on this disability... or learning disability... or whatever it is they see it as.
My case is definately an unusual one. Having a stroke at 31 years old is not normal. I just recently was assigned a new psychiatrist (my old one moved up to a new job) and, he really did a great job in explaining why I have the symptoms I have. To put it simply: I have been through a tough time in the last several years. I think it all began in 2000 when I lost my oldest brother. I think that's when I started having any mental symtoms... even though they were minor compared to now. And after several physical surgeries because of my physical stupidness (ha ha), I lost my only other brother about six months before my stroke.
I believe there were issues present, caused by stress and other life experiences, but the stroke definately accelerated the process. Even though I have recently been diagnosed with ADD, most/if not all of the syptoms can be rated under my already 30% rating for anxiety/depression. I have had a pretty rough recovery period while on TDRL experimenting with several different medications to treat my issues, and I'll tell you, after much pain and suffering I finaly feel great. I took me a long time to understand that I can't do the same things I could do prior to my stroke. I was virtually a frontrunner in everything I did.... to include an intimidating physical presence. Now, I can just perform at a NORMAL level lol.
By the way, last time I saw my phychiatrist I asked him what was wrong with me, and he said I have anxiety/depression and borderline PTSD from the issues I have had. I believe any and all of my issues are going to be a continuing fight for the rest of my life, but they are being treated and are NOT unfitting.
Anyway, sorry about the rant, but I just want to make sure that people know that we all have issues, and ADD/ADHD may not be the only issue, so don't let them try to push you out for bogus reasons. Especially if you have served 9+ years. How could you have made it this far for a nonfitting issue that existed prior to service? Take care of yourself. I have my first TDRL appointment tomorrow morning, and my goal is to knock em dead lol.
My case is definately an unusual one. Having a stroke at 31 years old is not normal. I just recently was assigned a new psychiatrist (my old one moved up to a new job) and, he really did a great job in explaining why I have the symptoms I have. To put it simply: I have been through a tough time in the last several years. I think it all began in 2000 when I lost my oldest brother. I think that's when I started having any mental symtoms... even though they were minor compared to now. And after several physical surgeries because of my physical stupidness (ha ha), I lost my only other brother about six months before my stroke.
I believe there were issues present, caused by stress and other life experiences, but the stroke definately accelerated the process. Even though I have recently been diagnosed with ADD, most/if not all of the syptoms can be rated under my already 30% rating for anxiety/depression. I have had a pretty rough recovery period while on TDRL experimenting with several different medications to treat my issues, and I'll tell you, after much pain and suffering I finaly feel great. I took me a long time to understand that I can't do the same things I could do prior to my stroke. I was virtually a frontrunner in everything I did.... to include an intimidating physical presence. Now, I can just perform at a NORMAL level lol.
By the way, last time I saw my phychiatrist I asked him what was wrong with me, and he said I have anxiety/depression and borderline PTSD from the issues I have had. I believe any and all of my issues are going to be a continuing fight for the rest of my life, but they are being treated and are NOT unfitting.
Anyway, sorry about the rant, but I just want to make sure that people know that we all have issues, and ADD/ADHD may not be the only issue, so don't let them try to push you out for bogus reasons. Especially if you have served 9+ years. How could you have made it this far for a nonfitting issue that existed prior to service? Take care of yourself. I have my first TDRL appointment tomorrow morning, and my goal is to knock em dead lol.
Yall,
I am going through something similar, but have just started seeing the doctors. What the psychiatrist told me is that she thinks I have General Anxiety Disorder and from what I read, that is ratable by the VA. I go in for my Conners Test next month to determine the ADD portion, but what she told me is that I could have both. The question I have is, I am about to go through an MEB for Asthma which I am currently taking Advair for and am wandering if the ADD will affect my MEB for Asthma..
I am going through something similar, but have just started seeing the doctors. What the psychiatrist told me is that she thinks I have General Anxiety Disorder and from what I read, that is ratable by the VA. I go in for my Conners Test next month to determine the ADD portion, but what she told me is that I could have both. The question I have is, I am about to go through an MEB for Asthma which I am currently taking Advair for and am wandering if the ADD will affect my MEB for Asthma..