1405 worksheet/final orders/NGB23

[rsburns]

@RonG
@Guardguy11
@Provis

Here is my issue as far as getting Final Orders adjusted. The 1405 worksheet calculates my 1405 time as equaling 1235 points which I agree with. My problem is that the 1405 worksheet only counts my active duty periods with a dd214 time and there is no place to capture my annual training from Inactive duty time. To me it is simple math using the NGB23 which they taught as as Soldiers was the Bible for retirement points. So if you add 5799 AD points from NGB23 plus the 1235 from 1405 worksheet it equals 7034 which matches 7034 Total points for retired pay on NGB23. So if you add the 7034 points ending on 8SEP21 and add 170 days of active duty from 9sep21 to 25FEB22(my retirement date) it equals 7204 total retirement points. Then divide the 7204 /360 = 20yrs plus a few days.

However as you see on the 1405 worksheet my total time equals 19yrs 9mos 14 days on the 1405 worksheet and that is what Fort Leonard Wood retirement Services uses to cut my orders.
They also use the 16yrs 4 mos and 9 days as my Disability Retirement time. but like I said if you calculate my active duty points 5799 plus the 169 for active duty time from 9SEP21 - 25FEB22 it divides out to 16yrs 6mos 29 days.

So my issue is the lady that does my orders says she just puts the corresponding numbers from Trasproc/1405 worksheet not info from NGB23. What can I do to get this corrected?

Attached my orders/NGB23 and 1405 worksheet below

 

[Provis]

@RonG
@Guardguy11
@Provis

Here is my issue as far as getting Final Orders adjusted. The 1405 worksheet calculates my 1405 time as equaling 1235 points which I agree with. My problem is that the 1405 worksheet only counts my active duty periods with a dd214 time and there is no place to capture my annual training from Inactive duty time. To me it is simple math using the NGB23 which they taught as as Soldiers was the Bible for retirement points. So if you add 5799 AD points from NGB23 plus the 1235 from 1405 worksheet it equals 7034 which matches 7034 Total points for retired pay on NGB23. So if you add the 7034 points ending on 8SEP21 and add 170 days of active duty from 9sep21 to 25FEB22(my retirement date) it equals 7204 total retirement points. Then divide the 7204 /360 = 20yrs plus a few days.

However as you see on the 1405 worksheet my total time equals 19yrs 9mos 14 days on the 1405 worksheet and that is what Fort Leonard Wood retirement Services uses to cut my orders.
They also use the 16yrs 4 mos and 9 days as my Disability Retirement time. but like I said if you calculate my active duty points 5799 plus the 169 for active duty time from 9SEP21 - 25FEB22 it divides out to 16yrs 6mos 29 days.

So my issue is the lady that does my orders says she just puts the corresponding numbers from Trasproc/1405 worksheet not info from NGB23. What can I do to get this corrected?

Attached my orders/NGB23 and 1405 worksheet below

You need to contact HRC at Fort Knox and have them recalculate out your 1405. You really need a finalized 1405 to show the 7200 points. This may be tricky because I am not sure if they can get points added until you get to that point. Maybe get them to do it a few days before you are out to show 7200 points? You will probably have to coordinate with everyone because your situation is super rare. Think less than .01%. If you don't get movement I would contact a congressperson and explain that you need help to because the Army doesn't know how to handle your situation. Its like trying to get your 20 year letter when you reach that milestone a few days before medically retiring. You want it before you get out but the system isn't setup to give you a 20 year letter until several months have passed since you have achieved it. Only this is even more important. You need your paperwork to be correct and show the correct numbers based on your service through the last day you are still in the military.

 

[Chalk22]

@RonG
@Guardguy11
@Provis

Here is my issue as far as getting Final Orders adjusted. The 1405 worksheet calculates my 1405 time as equaling 1235 points which I agree with. My problem is that the 1405 worksheet only counts my active duty periods with a dd214 time and there is no place to capture my annual training from Inactive duty time. To me it is simple math using the NGB23 which they taught as as Soldiers was the Bible for retirement points. So if you add 5799 AD points from NGB23 plus the 1235 from 1405 worksheet it equals 7034 which matches 7034 Total points for retired pay on NGB23. So if you add the 7034 points ending on 8SEP21 and add 170 days of active duty from 9sep21 to 25FEB22(my retirement date) it equals 7204 total retirement points. Then divide the 7204 /360 = 20yrs plus a few days.

However as you see on the 1405 worksheet my total time equals 19yrs 9mos 14 days on the 1405 worksheet and that is what Fort Leonard Wood retirement Services uses to cut my orders.
They also use the 16yrs 4 mos and 9 days as my Disability Retirement time. but like I said if you calculate my active duty points 5799 plus the 169 for active duty time from 9SEP21 - 25FEB22 it divides out to 16yrs 6mos 29 days.

So my issue is the lady that does my orders says she just puts the corresponding numbers from Trasproc/1405 worksheet not info from NGB23. What can I do to get this corrected?

Attached my orders/NGB23 and 1405 worksheet below

I think you are missing some data in your calculations. The AD time in the worksheet is based upon your separation date of 25 February, not the 9 Sep 21 date on your NGB 23. They are saying you will have 11 years, 4 months and 22 days for your current period starting 4 October 2010 and ending on 25 Feb. This appears to be correct. Since it is a continuous period of AD they will not calculate your time by dividing days by 360, which is advantageous. Instead, they will count each calendar year, followed by remaking calendar months, then days.

 

[rsburns]

I think you are missing some data in your calculations. The AD time in the worksheet is based upon your separation date of 25 February, not the 9 Sep 21 date on your NGB 23. They are saying you will have 11 years, 4 months and 22 days for your current period starting 4 October 2010 and ending on 25 Feb. This appears to be correct. Since it is a continuous period of AD they will not calculate your time by dividing days by 360, which is advantageous. Instead, they will count each calendar year, followed by remaking calendar months, then days.

I agree that the worksheet is missing points/time and the missing time is from active duty portion, the 3yr 5m 5d from 1405 time matches NGB23 which = 1235 pts add the 5799 from AD pts = 7034 which equals NGB23 Column total pts for retirement. Take the 7034 from 8Sep21 and add 170 days to 25Feb22 = 7204 But neither my S1 or G1 figure out how to make worksheet equal 20 yrs. FT LEONARD WOOD is processing my medicsl discharge and said they can only use dates from TRASPROC worksheet. They all agree that I will have over 7200 pts and with medical retirement I should be able to receive va disability and non regular retirement immediately instead of waiting 6+ yrs which equal over 150k to me. But MOARNG G1 is not able to make the worksheet = 20yrs.

 

[Provis]

I agree that the worksheet is missing points/time and the missing time is from active duty portion, the 3yr 5m 5d from 1405 time matches NGB23 which = 1235 pts add the 5799 from AD pts = 7034 which equals NGB23 Column total pts for retirement. Take the 7034 from 8Sep21 and add 170 days to 25Feb22 = 7204 But neither my S1 or G1 figure out how to make worksheet equal 20 yrs. FT LEONARD WOOD is processing my medicsl discharge and said they can only use dates from TRASPROC worksheet. They all agree that I will have over 7200 pts and with medical retirement I should be able to receive va disability and non regular retirement immediately instead of waiting 6+ yrs which equal over 150k to me. But MOARNG G1 is not able to make the worksheet = 20yrs.

You will need some very high ups to help you out. Inactive points and membership points don't count towards 20 year active retirement EXCEPT when being medically retired. That makes your situation very rare and so no one at the ground level will be able to help you.

 

[Chalk22]

I agree that the worksheet is missing points/time and the missing time is from active duty portion, the 3yr 5m 5d from 1405 time matches NGB23 which = 1235 pts add the 5799 from AD pts = 7034 which equals NGB23 Column total pts for retirement. Take the 7034 from 8Sep21 and add 170 days to 25Feb22 = 7204 But neither my S1 or G1 figure out how to make worksheet equal 20 yrs. FT LEONARD WOOD is processing my medicsl discharge and said they can only use dates from TRASPROC worksheet. They all agree that I will have over 7200 pts and with medical retirement I should be able to receive va disability and non regular retirement immediately instead of waiting 6+ yrs which equal over 150k to me. But MOARNG G1 is not able to make the worksheet = 20yrs.

I don’t know about getting non-regular retirement right away, but I can say that normally 7200 points for AD doesn’t get you a regular retirement as an AGR Since there are 365 days in a year.

 

[Provis]

I don’t know about getting non-regular retirement right away, but I can say that normally 7200 points doesn’t get you a regular retirement as an AGR.

It doesn't EXCEPT for when you are medically retired. Its the one exception to the rule.

 

[Chalk22]

It doesn't EXCEPT for when you are medically retired. Its the one exception to the rule.

I think this has been raised a couple of times but it appears the real issue is eligibility for CRDP. In cases of non-medical retirement the 1405 time cannot be used to get a regular retirement and CRDP.

 

[Provis]

I think this has been raised a couple of times but it appears the real issue is eligibility for CRDP. In cases of non-medical retirement the 1405 time cannot be used to get a regular retirement and CRDP.

He needs his retirement orders to show 20 years Active Duty Equivalent to get CRDP. There is a disconnect for guard and reserve soldiers in this unique situation.

 

[rsburns]

To make this a little clearer is I have went thru MEB and found unfit with 40% DOD disability and 100% VA. Provis is correct I need my orders to say 20 years to receive va disability and retirement pay(DFAS). My understanding is it will be non regular retirement. I have convinced my S1 to get on call with me to HRC tomorrow to see if we can get some guidance. I don't know if this matters or not but the National Guard transferred me to Army about 4 months ago so they could fill my AGR position. I really do appreciate all the help and advice given on this forum and I will pass on how it ends up working out so others can learn from my situation.

 

[RonG]

Hello @rsburns
cc: @Provis

Ref: "...and I will pass on how it ends up working out so others can learn from my situation."

That is an excellent plan and I am one of those who would benefit from your written report/clarification (for use in computing retired pay, CRDP, and CRSC in my case).

Thank you,
Ron

 

[Provis]

To make this a little clearer is I have went thru MEB and found unfit with 40% DOD disability and 100% VA. Provis is correct I need my orders to say 20 years to receive va disability and retirement pay(DFAS). My understanding is it will be non regular retirement. I have convinced my S1 to get on call with me to HRC tomorrow to see if we can get some guidance. I don't know if this matters or not but the National Guard transferred me to Army about 4 months ago so they could fill my AGR position. I really do appreciate all the help and advice given on this forum and I will pass on how it ends up working out so others can learn from my situation.

Did you find anything out from your phone call to HRC?

 

[rsburns]

talked to them but they couldn't see my file because it is in National Guard files not Army. I'm a little confused by this since National Guard transferred me 4 months ago to Army WTU so they could backfill my position. I did get transferred over to a civilian that handles AGR National Guard retirees but could only leave message and email and no reply yet.

 

[Provis]

talked to them but they couldn't see my file because it is in National Guard files not Army. I'm a little confused by this since National Guard transferred me 4 months ago to Army WTU so they could backfill my position. I did get transferred over to a civilian that handles AGR National Guard retirees but could only leave message and email and no reply yet.

Keep us posted! Your case is unique and knowing the details and outcome can help many others that visit this site in the future.

 

[rsburns]

Keep us posted! Your case is unique and knowing the details and outcome can help many others that visit this site in the future.

To keep everyone updated, I have requested to be extended for 3 months to give time figure out why my active duty points are not calculating out correctly for my situation. Reference AR 635-40 PARAGRAPH 3-12 How to compute under Title 10 US CODE SECTION 1208. Hopefully the extension goes thru and we can figure out quickly. If extension doesn't go thru I'm pretty much screwed
and will have to wait until I'm 60 to draw retirement.

 

[Provis]

To keep everyone updated, I have requested to be extended for 3 months to give time figure out why my active duty points are not calculating out correctly for my situation. Reference AR 635-40 PARAGRAPH 3-12 How to compute under Title 10 US CODE SECTION 1208. Hopefully the extension goes thru and we can figure out quickly. If extension doesn't go thru I'm pretty much screwed
and will have to wait until I'm 60 to draw retirement.

I hope it gets approved! Also, you aren't completely screwed. You can appeal to BCMR but that can take a couple years. Have you gotten a congressperson involved yet? I would make those calls too!

 

[rsburns]

I hope it gets approved! Also, you aren't completely screwed. You can appeal to BCMR but that can take a couple years. Have you gotten a congressperson involved yet? I would make those calls too!

update on my case the retirement services at Fort Leonard Wood processed my disability retirement as not receiving AD retirement therefor only receiving VA disability and waiting to receive retirement pay at age 60. Missouri National Guard IG has contacted Fort Leonard Wood IG to try to get Retirement services to amend my final orders. If that doesn't work I will file complaint with Congressman San Graces office but I've been ask not to file congressional complaint because the IG has to stop their investigation if congressional complaint is filed.

 

[Provis]

Keep up the good fight! You are entitled to it but your situation is super rare! Also, @RonG contacted a YouTuber who did a video on your exact situation. Its very dry but it does point out all the AR's and that you should get AD retirement if medically retired with 7200 or more total points. Also, might want to show IG this too. You want this fixed before you are out because if not it will take years to get resolved. Check out this YouTube video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i3ZRbHBpD8

 

[rsburns]

New update this came from
Mr. Andres R. Cortes, He is the NGB Senior HR Analyst for the HRP-T Retirement
Services section. His email is Andres.r.cortes.civ@army.mil and his work
number is 703-607-1422.
As for the question of obtaining retirement and VA disability at the same
time, the information found that allows this scenario does not mention
Disability Retirement and VA Disability compensation. You would need to be
retired under the Regular 20+ years of Active Federal Service Retirement or
when you turn 60 and qualify to obtain your Non-Regular Retirement.
**layman terms 7200 pts qualified me for 20 active federal service medical retirement but medical retirement doesn't qualify to receive concurrent payments of retired pay DFAS and VA disability at same time. Therefore I will have to turn 60 to receive my retirement.
***I also attempted to get help thru Congressman Sam Graves office, they was absolutely worthless other than sending me a form that they had my permission act on my behalf. Never returned calls or emails after that.

 

[Jes]

New update this came from
Mr. Andres R. Cortes, He is the NGB Senior HR Analyst for the HRP-T Retirement
Services section. His email is Andres.r.cortes.civ@army.mil and his work
number is 703-607-1422.
As for the question of obtaining retirement and VA disability at the same
time, the information found that allows this scenario does not mention
Disability Retirement and VA Disability compensation. You would need to be
retired under the Regular 20+ years of Active Federal Service Retirement or
when you turn 60 and qualify to obtain your Non-Regular Retirement.
**layman terms 7200 pts qualified me for 20 active federal service medical retirement but medical retirement doesn't qualify to receive concurrent payments of retired pay DFAS and VA disability at same time. Therefore I will have to turn 60 to receive my retirement.
***I also attempted to get help thru Congressman Sam Graves office, they was absolutely worthless other than sending me a form that they had my permission act on my behalf. Never returned calls or emails after

I know this post is almost a year old, but did Mr. Cortes happen to explain to you why you couldn’t get both? DFAS states that you are eligible for CRDP as a ch 61 retiree if you have 20 years computed under 10 USC 12732 (which is all points). Plus having the 50% disability and being eligible for any month of disability retired pay and VA comp. DFAS does also states that as a ch 61 retiree with 20 years of service (again computed under 10USC 12732) that you will still have to waive a portion of retired pay but the waiver amount is only the amount that the military disability retired pay exceeds the amount of military retired pay to which the member would have been entitled to receive if the member had hypothetically been retired under another law (such as the law that permits voluntarily retirement based on longevity/years of service. It seems as though you should have been eligible for both since you had the 7200 points, and would only have to waive the portion that went above what your regular retirement would have been, instead of the full dollar for dollar waiver.

I’m asking because I’m in a similar situation. I have 23 year of total service, 18 years AD, but will have 7200 retirement points in October of this year and before I get put out on ch 61 retirement I want to know if I make it to 7200 points if I can get the CRDP. Why would DFAS say you would be eligible for CRDP if you have 20 year calculated under 10USC 12732 (all points) if you can’t actually get it until you reach retirement age for guard members? I would understand if a guard member did not have 7200 points having to wait until age 60. Just wanting to make sure I’m not missing out on anything. Thanks!