Anyone ever hear of this CRDP fraud?

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GatorNavy1

GatorNavy1

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This guy really doesn't want to pay his former spouse. He went to the BCMR with a request to have his 20 year letter revoked because his former spouse is after half of his retired pay. He is Air National Guard with a chapter 61 retirement because of a civilian car accident off base in CONUS. He turned 60 in 2016 but did not apply for retired pay. He was VA IU about two years before he was issued the 20 year letter.

His former spouse took him to court in 2019 and that is when he submitted the DD 149 to the BCMR. In support of the DD 149, he attached an outdated TDRL order that shows 18 years of service for base pay. The TDRL was later corrected to reflect 22 years. He also submitted an old outdated AF 526 (PCARS) that had satisfactory service of only 18 years. The memos he submitted are also fraudulent as he solicited them denying he was issued a 20 year letter and referenced the same outdated TDRL with only 18 years. He has the updated and corrected orders and records so he can undo what he has done.

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The AFBCMR kicked his request over to the Air Reserve Personnel Center (ARPC) for resolution. Obviously, the 20 year letter cannot be revoked for any reason other than fraud. However ARPC did give him a "Memorandum of Erroneous Issue of the NERP" based solely on the fraudulent records he sent to the BCMR. They would still have to honor the 20 year letter by law. However what is of concern is what the retirements chief wrote in the memo:

"Our records reflect that you have not completed the required 20 years satisfactory service under
the provision of Title 10, United States Code (U.S.C.), Section 12731, to be entitled to Concurrent
Retirement Disability Pay (CRDP), upon application at age 60".

Now the chief is stepping on his necktie here because he is thinking that it is impossible to carve out 20 satisfactory years from 18 creditable. What will happen if he applies before the authentic and corrected records are put back in his personnel file? This is obvious fraud. I don't think ARPC or the BCMR gets very many requests to have a 20 year letter revoked. What will happen if AFOSI finds out about it? How much trouble is he in? Could he lose his retired pay? I would think it would be a red flag when he does apply.

This sort of thing really ticks me off. Obviously he is dishonoring our Military and his Country. I am like some of you in that I was wounded over there with 10 years of active duty. They patched me up and I fought the the chap. 61. I eventually became VA 100% total and permanent before 2003 so I would have waved retired pay.
 
Comments:

Irrespective of the fraud and perjury involved in this case, payment of reserve retired pay (which triggers DFAS CRDP if eligible) is not automatic. One has to apply. No one can force you to apply for something you do not want.

I got lost in your narrative regarding the 20 good years vs. 18 "creditable." Twenty good years plus meeting the age requirement entitles one to RC retirement pay upon their application.

In an era of reports of reprehensible acts, this is in the top tier of such acts.

Ron
 
Yup...need to apply and then when DFAS switches the disability retired pay over to longevity retired pay, the CRDP kicks in. How would that show up in the RAS?

On the TDRL order it shows as service for base pay 18 years which I labeled as creditable. The NGB form 22 shows total service for pay block 10(d) as 22 years, which is what is computed for retired pay, correct?
 
GatorNavy1 said:
Yup...need to apply and then when DFAS switches the disability retired pay over to longevity retired pay, the CRDP kicks in. How would that show up in the RAS?
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Hello @GatorNavy1

1. If the DoD disability multiplier is higher than the longevity multiplier the disability multiplier is used.
2. The retired pay is reduced dollar for dollar in the amount of VA compensation received.
3. CRDP, if eligible, restores the waived retired pay not to exceed the longevity portion. CRDP is shown on page 2 of the DFAS RAS.
4. CRDP, when combined with any residual retired pay from item 2, cannot exceed the longevity computation.

Re: "...need to apply." I have never seen a law that requires an individual to apply for reserve retired pay. Perhaps one exists, but I doubt it.

Ron
 
Re: How is that shown on RAS?

Part of the presentation is that Gross Retired Pay is shown in the upper left column on page one.
The portion of the Gross that is CRDP is shown as a remark on page two. CRDP could be all of the gross.

Ron
 
Reserve Retired Pay.

"Eligibility for your first monthly retired pay is 30 days after your 60th birthday. If you apply after age 60, your pay will be retroactive to your 60th birthday. Your claim must be received within 6 years after your 60th birthday to receive your full entitlement. If the claim is filed more than 6 years after age 60, one day's retired pay will be lost for each day's delay. Delaying the application after age 60 can affect your Survivor Benefit Plan (SBP) and health care benefits. The risk increases if you have not elected one of the options available under the Reserve Component Survivor Benefit Plan (RCSBP). Retirement pay stops with the death of the servicemember unless the SBP election has been made." --MOAA


**You must APPLY for military retired pay; it is not automatic**

Guard and Reserve Retirement Benefits <==LINK

Ron
 
How do you know all this about the service member are they confiding or requesting your help and you are utterly betraying their trust? Sounds so regardless of what your personal feelings are in this matter I dont see any case of fraud. Whether you agree with it or not after divorce decrees are written up especially ones years before the service member is eligible for retirement many choose to jump over many legal hurdles to avoid paying the former spouse. These options are available to them and are completely legal same with merchants hiding behind bankruptcy laws to avoid paying creditors and vendors and the rich hiding assets to avoid taxes.

Howell v Howell has barred state courts for forcing the service member to indemnify the former spouse when the service members choose retirement options that reduce the amount the former spouse was initially eligible for.

@RonG I believe the service member here is not required to provide half because they were still medically chaptered some very complicated cases were already adjudicated in federal court over this and I believe DFAS only computes what's left after the percentage retirement. So if he was medically chaptered at 50% that portion is not in the division computation even if he has a 20 year letter? Can an audit be requested before applying for retirement? maybe its a number much lower than he expected and he can just let it go.

Either way even if he is served with papers all he has to do is produce a DFAS letter that his is not on retirement rolls and the issue is DOA the petitioner cannot produce proof of funds and the Court cannot force him to apply for retirement benefits their jurisdiction does not supersede federal law.
 
The Uniformed Services Former Spouse Protection Act is a federal law that provides certain benefits to former spouses of military members. Under this law, former spouses may be entitled to portions of the military member’s retirement pay, medical care, and exchange and commissary benefits.


The Uniformed Services Former Spouse Protection Act:


  • Allows state courts to divide disposable military retired pay between the service member and spouse
  • Allows former spouses to receive a portion of retired pay directly from the government in some circumstances
  • Grants some former spouses access to health care at military treatment facilities
  • Grants some former spouses access to military exchanges and commissaries
  • Grants benefits to some victims of spousal or child abuse




    It is important to note the law allows a part of the disposable military retired pay, not all retired pay. If a member was found a 100% disabled, he/she has no disposable retired pay. Disposable retire pay is reduced by the percent of disability.
 
oddpedestrian said:
How do you know all this about the service member are they confiding or requesting your help and you are utterly betraying their trust? Sounds so regardless of what your personal feelings are in this matter I dont see any case of fraud. Whether you agree with it or not after divorce decrees are written up especially ones years before the service member is eligible for retirement many choose to jump over many legal hurdles to avoid paying the former spouse. These options are available to them and are completely legal same with merchants hiding behind bankruptcy laws to avoid paying creditors and vendors and the rich hiding assets to avoid taxes.

Howell v Howell has barred state courts for forcing the service member to indemnify the former spouse when the service members choose retirement options that reduce the amount the former spouse was initially eligible for.

@RonG I believe the service member here is not required to provide half because they were still medically chaptered some very complicated cases were already adjudicated in federal court over this and I believe DFAS only computes what's left after the percentage retirement. So if he was medically chaptered at 50% that portion is not in the division computation even if he has a 20 year letter? Can an audit be requested before applying for retirement? maybe its a number much lower than he expected and he can just let it go.

Either way even if he is served with papers all he has to do is produce a DFAS letter that his is not on retirement rolls and the issue is DOA the petitioner cannot produce proof of funds and the Court cannot force him to apply for retirement benefits their jurisdiction does not supersede federal law.
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I have never heard of anyone trying to revoke their 20 year letter before....so thought I would pass it along for you folks to chew on. I am involved with this case but do not wish to disclose my involvement.

Please don't take what I am about to say the wrong way. I have done a bit of research and have come up with a few things about CRDP and a chapter 61 retirement. So just passing along what I have learned. The fraud is about him submitting a fraudulent TDRL and other fraudulent military records to the BCMR in support of the DD 149. The BCMR passed his record correction request over to ARPC at Buckley AFB for resolution. Rather than verifying the records, ARPC used the same fraudulent records he submitted to the BCMR to generate a "Memorandum of erroneous issue of the NERP".

He was medically retired (chapter 61) in 2007 with 80% which of course the max paid is 75%. He was VA 100% in 2007. He was issued the 20 year NERP (letter) in 2008. He was divorced in 2010. The divorce decree specified 50% of his retirement. The member turned age 60 in 2015 or so. Obviously, the chap. 61 retired pay was totally waived to receive VA disability compensation. The government won't pay twice for the same service connected disability.

With Active duty components, the member receives retired pay when they retire. With reserve component retirement, they must wait until age 60 to receive retired pay. The 20 year NERP is proof that the member retired with at least 20 good years. It is the equivalent of a DD 214 for an active duty retirement.

CRDP is considered marital property which is divisible by any state court. Take a look at DODFMR Vol. 7 chap. 29.

Read 10 U.S.C. sec 1414 carefully. Chap. 61 disability retired pay cannot exceed the longevity retired pay amount. In other words, chap 61 retired pay is switched over to longevity retired pay. But they must apply for longevity retired pay to receive CRDP:

(b)Special Rules for Chapter 61 Disability Retirees.—
(1)Career retirees.—
The retired pay of a member retired under chapter 61 of this title with 20 years or more of service otherwise creditable under section 1405 of this title, or at least 20 years of service computed under section 12732 of this title, at the time of the member’s retirement is subject to reduction under sections 5304 and 5305 of title 38, but only to the extent that the amount of the member’s retired pay under chapter 61 of this title exceeds the amount of retired pay to which the member would have been entitled under any other provision of law based upon the member’s service in the uniformed services if the member had not been retired under chapter 61 of this title.
(2)Disability retirees with less than 20 years of service.—
Subsection (a) does not apply to a member retired under chapter 61 of this title with less than 20 years of service otherwise creditable under section 1405 of this title, or with less than 20 years of service computed under section 12732 of this title, at the time of the member’s retirement."

He tried to get DFAS to say he isn't eligible for CRDP. The fact is DFAS won't get his longevity retirement records until he applies for retired pay through his reserve component.
 
chaplaincharlie said:
The Uniformed Services Former Spouse Protection Act is a federal law that provides certain benefits to former spouses of military members. Under this law, former spouses may be entitled to portions of the military member’s retirement pay, medical care, and exchange and commissary benefits.


The Uniformed Services Former Spouse Protection Act:


  • Allows state courts to divide disposable military retired pay between the service member and spouse
  • Allows former spouses to receive a portion of retired pay directly from the government in some circumstances
  • Grants some former spouses access to health care at military treatment facilities
  • Grants some former spouses access to military exchanges and commissaries
  • Grants benefits to some victims of spousal or child abuse




    It is important to note the law allows a part of the disposable military retired pay, not all retired pay. If a member was found a 100% disabled, he/she has no disposable retired pay. Disposable retire pay is reduced by the percent of disability.
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That all changes with CRDP because longevity retired pay is disposable retired pay. CRSC is not divisible because that amount is based on disability.
 
Hello,

Having worked with and received CRDP or CRSC since their inception, I am somewhat familiar with the laws you cited. I haven't gone back and counted them, but I have ~13,000 posts between this forum and another where I operated for many years. Most of those posts deal with some aspect of military pay.

I want to comment on only one aspect of your post immediately preceding this one.

You said, "Chap. 61 disability retired pay cannot exceed the longevity retired pay amount." Taking that statement by itself; it is incorrect.
Most CH 61 disability retirement (payment) cases involve more than the longevity amount. If the retiree does not agree to waive retired pay dollar for dollar in the amount of VA compensation received (i.e., he/she declines VA comp), then the retiree receives "just" his DoD disability retired pay which can be more than the longevity. Occasionally, a case like that arises.

On the other hand and your intent I believe, the limitation associated with longevity and CRDP is restricted as follows:
640401. LINK <----Financial Regulation
Special Rule for Disability Retirement Members retired for disability under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61, §§ 1201 through 1222 remain subject to the offset required under 38 U.S.C. §§ 5304 and 5305 for any retired pay they receive that is in excess of the amount of retired pay to which they would be entitled under any other provision of law based on service in the Uniformed Services, had they not retired for disability. Since retired pay in excess of the amount calculated for years in service is still subject to offset under the CRDP program, a member with an amount of retired pay remaining after offset of VA disability compensation, that is greater than the amount calculated for years of service, is not eligible for any increase in payment of retired pay under the CRDP program.

CRDP does not restore waived/reduced/lost retired pay that is in excess of the longevity portion.
If there is residual retired pay after the VA waiver/offset amount, that amount combined with CRDP cannot exceed the longevity portion of retired pay.

Ron
 
Just curious if he did get CRDP wouldn't the ex get some of that since CRDP restores some of the military pension that was originally offset by disability?
 
You have described it better than
RonG said:
Hello,

Having worked with and received CRDP or CRSC since their inception, I am somewhat familiar with the laws you cited. I haven't gone back and counted them, but I have ~13,000 posts between this forum and another where I operated for many years. Most of those posts deal with some aspect of military pay.

I want to comment on only one aspect of your post immediately preceding this one.

You said, "Chap. 61 disability retired pay cannot exceed the longevity retired pay amount." Taking that statement by itself; it is incorrect.
Most CH 61 disability retirement (payment) cases involve more than the longevity amount. If the retiree does not agree to waive retired pay dollar for dollar in the amount of VA compensation received (i.e., he/she declines VA comp), then the retiree receives "just" his DoD disability retired pay which can be more than the longevity. Occasionally, a case like that arises.

On the other hand and your intent I believe, the limitation associated with longevity and CRDP is restricted as follows:
640401. LINK <----Financial Regulation
Special Rule for Disability Retirement Members retired for disability under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61, §§ 1201 through 1222 remain subject to the offset required under 38 U.S.C. §§ 5304 and 5305 for any retired pay they receive that is in excess of the amount of retired pay to which they would be entitled under any other provision of law based on service in the Uniformed Services, had they not retired for disability. Since retired pay in excess of the amount calculated for years in service is still subject to offset under the CRDP program, a member with an amount of retired pay remaining after offset of VA disability compensation, that is greater than the amount calculated for years of service, is not eligible for any increase in payment of retired pay under the CRDP program.

CRDP does not restore waived/reduced/lost retired pay that is in excess of the longevity portion.
If there is residual retired pay after the VA waiver/offset amount, that amount combined with CRDP cannot exceed the longevity portion of retired pay.

Ron
Click to expand...

You have described it better than I ever could. I am just looking at E6 base pay at 22 years and the 100% VA comp plus SMC amount. So in this particular case the entire amount of chap 61 retired pay is waived. That is the way it shows up in the RAS. His service multiplier is 45% (50 % for active duty) which is rather high for a reserve component retirement. So we are looking at a difference between 45% of base pay for an E6 with 22 years vs. 75% of chap. 61 retired pay. The difference between 45% and 75% will remain offset. The CRDP amount is 45% of base pay plus VA disability comp. Please do feel free to Correct me if I am in error.
 
Provis said:
Just curious if he did get CRDP wouldn't the ex get some of that since CRDP restores some of the military pension that was originally offset by disability?
Click to expand...
yes, that is correct. CRDP restores the longevity retired pay amount. It depends on the state divorce court dividing the retired pay as to how much the former spouse is to receive. DFAS needs to be able to derive a percentage of monthly disposable retired pay to garnish. DFAS also requires 10 years service overlap during the marriage. If for some reason DFAS cannot honor the garnishment and pay the former spouse directly, it is still the responsibility of the retiree to pay the former spouse. State Courts can and do award 50% of total monthly gross retired pay as long as deductions are not disability pay.

Which of course makes sense because deductions like SBP premiums are deducted from the top. Sometimes the former spouse doesn't want to pay the premiums. Also, if the retiree is Court Martialed and fined after he/she retires, those fines come off the top as well. Some states only allow military service that was performed during the marriage to be divided, while other states consider service performed before and after the marriage as marital property. The NDAA 2017 put a damper on service performed after the marriage.
 
RonG said:
Reserve Retired Pay.

"Eligibility for your first monthly retired pay is 30 days after your 60th birthday. If you apply after age 60, your pay will be retroactive to your 60th birthday. Your claim must be received within 6 years after your 60th birthday to receive your full entitlement. If the claim is filed more than 6 years after age 60, one day's retired pay will be lost for each day's delay. Delaying the application after age 60 can affect your Survivor Benefit Plan (SBP) and health care benefits. The risk increases if you have not elected one of the options available under the Reserve Component Survivor Benefit Plan (RCSBP). Retirement pay stops with the death of the servicemember unless the SBP election has been made." --MOAA


**You must APPLY for military retired pay; it is not automatic**

Guard and Reserve Retirement Benefits <==LINK

Ron
Click to expand...
the way I understand it, the payment doesn't start for 30 days but the pay amount is calculated from the 1st of the month following the 60th BD. Correct?
 
GatorNavy1 said:
the way I understand it, the payment doesn't start for 30 days but the pay amount is calculated from the 1st of the month following the 60th BD. Correct?
Click to expand...
I have never given that much thought, but I think you are correct. It makes sense.

Ron
Army, Regular Retirement
Finance Corps
 
RonG said:
I have never given that much thought, but I think you are correct. It makes sense.

Ron
Army, Regular Retirement
Finance Corps
Click to expand...
It's buried somewhere in the FMR I think. I was just looking at the M21 manual and it is in simple language for chap 61 with 20 years. Even I can understand it.
 
@GatorNavy1 ,

I discussed this matter with a respected colleague on another site. Here is a copy of my reply to only one of his remarks.
[my reply]
Hello,

Re: "A divorce decree can include a provision compelling the member to apply for retirement."--your comment

I wonder if the process involves other than the provision you mention. You made me realize years ago that the judges can use their authority to issue decrees that veterans might not have anticipated, especially those engaged in "avoidance maneuvers ."

This non-military site discusses similar actions: LINK <---

[start quotation] Some states allow payments to be made while the military member is still on active duty; some do not. The law permits the present value of the pension to be used as a set-off or trade against other property that the civilian spouse may receive. Thus, for example, the retired pay might be traded against a marital home. If the numbers do not align properly and equitably, one spouse can make what is called "distributive award" to the other to compensate for the inequality.

Postponement of retirement cannot be used to prevent the distribution of military retirement pay to an ex-spouse. Some courts have held that a former spouse may collect his or her portion of the retirement pay at the time of eligibility for retirement, regardless of whether the service member actually retires. This may sound complex, but it is logical. These courts use the rationale that the service member spouse cannot defeat the non-service member spouse's interest in the community property by relying on a condition within the Service Member spouse's control. [end quotation]

=============

I did not search for the applicable laws that outline the quoted material.

JMO: In summary, this is a matter for attorneys to field.


Ron
 
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