Use or Lose Leave During the IDES process

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Wild Blue

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I have been in the IDES process for over a year, and for the FULL 2013 fiscal year. As instructed by the PEBLO office, and backed up by the DAWG lead doctor, I have been restricted from taking leave. Therefore, I have 19 days of use/lose leave. I have repeatedly asked and confirmed with the PEBLO office that there will be no restriction in the amount of terminal leave that I will be allowed to take in the upcoming medical retirement. (I'm USAF, but have read of other services being capped at 60) Therefore, what I want to do is retain most of that use/lose leave, to be used in upcoming terminal leave.

The thing is, I'm currently in the SECAF appeal phase, and since it's been 6 weeks, I expect to hear back from him any day now. I will then go on to the VA appeal. My PEBLO office is saying that because I've already gone to the FPEB, they will let me take leave now if I want. I've talked to my base Personnel Flight, they called AFPC, and say that they can't find anything in the regs that prohibit me from taking leave during the IDES process. So they say, "of course you can take leave, so if you don't want to lose it, you better take all of your use/lose leave now before the end of the month." (note that I would have had to started leave on Thursday to use it all)

I can NOT be the only person ever to run into this situation, where we're prohibited from taking leave, and then have use/lose leave at the end of the fiscal year. Has anyone found a way to retain their entitled leave? This is not right, for the Air Force to say, "we are not going to let you take leave for a year, but then FORCE you to either take all of your use/lose leave whether you want to or not in September, or forfeit your entitlement".
 
Every time I have asked about leave I am usually threatened with AFMOA cancelling my orders. The reference below is also pointed out. I am almost at 80 days of accrued leave and was also informed that I will be losing most of also.

AFI36-3212
4.4. Control of Member During PEB Processing. Disability processing begins when the PEBRH or HQ AFPC/DPAMM refers a medical board case to the PEB. Once in disability channels, the following restrictions apply to ensure the member is available for necessary disability processing actions:
4.4.1. The member may not take leave outside the local area.
4.4.2. The member may not go on TDY.
4.4.3. The MPF will not reassign the member, except for emergency reasons, until receiving notification of the final determination.
4.4.4. The PEBLO notifies the member's commander and servicing MPF, in writing, when the MTF or HQ AFPC/DPAMM refers a case to the PEB, and informs them of the preceding restrictions.
4.4.5. Exceptions to the restrictions on TDY and reassignment are those actions necessary for completion of disability processing, i.e., TDY to the FPEB and TDY or permanent change of station (PCS) in a patient status for required medical evaluation or treatment. HQ AFPC/DPPD authorizes exceptions to the leave restriction outside the local area when warranted by circumstances and when approval of leave will not adversely affect case processing.
 
I was told that I had to take leave in state being that I was in the IDES process...But I had to get it checked off with my Peblo agreeing that I will make all my appointments even while on leave....Use or Lose is simply use or lose because you will get about 20 days of leave from your commander and you accure leave while u are on leave..so long as you have about 75 days you will be good because you will have about 104 days when its all said and done. Your company can also limit the days to 60 you take if they want to and make you sell the rest...its really up to them
 
Wild Blue, I went on leave multiple times while going through the MEB, 90% of the time I didn't even tell my PEBLO because I never left the city. My CoC agreed with letting me use as much leave as possible due to them stating they would not let me take over 90 days with PTDY. The reason why is that my PEBLO would lose the leave request, she did it to A LOT of people in my Battalion... Reason #3 they did an investigation on her office...
 
Well I was told your unit commander can add you to the Special Leave Accure (SLA) list and make it were you don't lose your leave. Atleast, that is what my unit is doing for me. I have 30 days of use or lose coming up. I was referred to the personal staff at San Antonio and they told me this. Hopefully everyone's else unit is standing behind them!
 
Thanks for your reply, guys. Buscktr, your info with the reg citations were particularly helpful. Bottom line for me is, they're not letting me retain any use/lose, and after a year of being restricted from leave (for the reasons buckstr posts above) I'm now being made to take 19 days of leave all in one chunk when they tell me to, whether I like it or not.
 
you dont have to use your leave during the ides process. save your leave till the process is done and take terminal leave . also you can add your house hunting leave on top of that . which i think is 10 days as well.
 
Be aware. You are allowed to use as much leave as you have for terminal. However, your orders may not allow you to use all 60 days. I had 40 days of leave saved. But my orders were cut and only 60 days out. So between outprocessing, TAPS, House Hunting, and Permissive TDY, I was only able to use half my leave and had to turn the other half in. I tried to apply for an extension and it was denied. The AF does not want to spend more money on you on BAH and BAS. They will try and make you just turn it in. It is more beneficial to them.
 
You said you turned it in, was there a reason you didn't sell it back? Also TAPS can be attended up to a year out, once I was notified that my MEB was a go I attended it. While we are talking about TAPS, I told them I was retiring so I only had to attend the first and last day. Some of the younger guys/gals might not be able to do the same, but there are some advantages of being older. I didn't want to sit through all the corporate job interview BS, I'm going back to Wyoming and can tell you 95% of day 2-4 is useless unless you are looking for work in a business environment. I started day 2 but did not return after lunch.
 
Weapons loader said:
You said you turned it in, was there a reason you didn't sell it back? Also TAPS can be attended up to a year out, once I was notified that my MEB was a go I attended it. While we are talking about TAPS, I told them I was retiring so I only had to attend the first and last day. Some of the younger guys/gals might not be able to do the same, but there are some advantages of being older. I didn't want to sit through all the corporate job interview BS, I'm going back to Wyoming and can tell you 95% of day 2-4 is useless unless you are looking for work in a business environment. I started day 2 but did not return after lunch.
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By turn it in, I meant sell it back. I didn't take taps ahead of time, because my chain would not allow me to miss work for a week to attend without orders. I was in for 12 years and this was my 5th assignment and I was new.

You are allowed to use your use or lose leave in the local area. Whatever your base commander deems the "local" area. but not outside, in case of a short notice appointment or results come down. If they let you miss 3 days of TAPS and still counted you as completing it, then that's on them. Ours were very strict about full attendance, unless you had medical appointment.
 
The AFI states that retires only need to attend day one and five, and actually I think it's a DOD reg that governs.
 
Weapons loader said:
The AFI states that retires only need to attend day one and five, and actually I think it's a DOD reg that governs.
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3.2. Transition Assistance Program (TAP). A&FRCs provide Service members with the
knowledge, skills, and abilities to empower them to make informed career decisions, be
competitive in a global work force, and become positive contributors to their community as they
transition from military service and reintegrate into civilian life. Presidential Memorandum,
Career Transition Assistance for Federal Employees, 12 Sep 1995, and Air Force policy dictate
that transition assistance will be provided to DoD civilian employees (and family members)
impacted by restructuring and reductions.
3.2.1. IAW Title 10 United States Code (USC) Section 1142, preseparation counseling is
mandatory for all separating RegAF Service members with 180 continuous days of active
duty and all eligible deactivating members of the ANG and AFR, to include Individual
Ready Reserve and individual mobilizing augmentees, serving pursuant to Title 10 USC §
1142, with 180 cumulative days of service (other than training) not later than 90 days prior
to separation. Preseparation counseling is mandatory for all Service members retiring or
separating for a disability regardless of length of service.
3.2.1.1. TDY to attend preseparation counseling is subject to mission requirements and
destination will be the closest, most cost effective location that provides the counseling
regardless of Service affiliation. Preseparation may be accomplished telephonically as
needed.
3.2.1.2. DoD civilians impacted by reductions or restructuring must be provided
preseparation counseling upon request. Preseparation may be accomplished
telephonically as needed.
3.2.1.3. AFPC /DPFF will maintain the Transition Assistance Preseparation Counseling
Operations Guide. The guide is updated as needed and transmitted to the field
electronically.
3.2.2. Department of Labor TAP workshop attendance in the local area is considered official
duty, not leave.
3.2.3. The DoD TAP Reporting requirements are outlined in the Desktop Guide.

AFI 36-3009
 
I'll have to check my material but I can tell you that day 1/5 meet the requirement set forth for the TAP program. The days in the middle were not run by the Department of Labor but instead was run by a contract agency, included in this section was the resume writing, interview process and what to wear if you choose to work for IBM. Starting this year there will be different tracts, business, education and vocational that will be taught by different contractors. But day 1/5 were the only days that the DoL taught. It could however be base to base, but I think I remember her saying that it's standardized across the AF.
 
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